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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:09 pm 
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MACTNKA wrote:
So all in all the Competitions results will give you the wants


Idk, that criteria would get me blasted if I posted it, but I'm not of the opinion that a race kite, or a hardcore freestyle kite or a pure wave kite is suited to the average free rider.

Brings me back to my point that few riders have much experience across multiple brands and form highly emotional opinions to in many ways rationalize their choices.

You were pretty quick to jump on my criticism of Core's advertising when it reads like Core make up 70% of your kite experience with only one other brand in the mix. To add to that you take one forum guys opinion as evidence when he is also clearly emotionally invested and generally provides some of the most emotional, frivolous and irrelevant posts on here. Regardless, you now profess a "a true love affair" has formed for the only kite brand you have had any success with. Of course you adapted to the kite! It's practically all you've known.

Lastly your opinion of North is now pretty poor as your initial experiences with the Rebel were frustrating. If you care to look, the Rebel is widely accepted as one of the all time legendary free ride kites with one of the best safety systems out there. You just didn't have the level of proficiency at that point to appreciate it. Over sheeting is a trim issue and common in used kites where front lines will stretch over time. You had proven kites with a proven track record but have a poor opinion of them due to your shortcomings, not the kites.

It could have easily gone the other way, where a used set of Cores could have frustrated you and some research led you to the many great reviews on the Rebel. With a properly trimmed kite you might just as we'll be a North fan, touting the incredible safety of the non death spiral properties of fifth line safety!

You seem to hold Ozone in high esteem without any personal experience whatsoever.

Again. Not a lot of reliable data shaping strong opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:24 pm 
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This is the power of branding....and totally my point. This person will not buy a north kite due to his rebel experience, found good info about Core but idolizes Ozone. By this account, I can conclude that poor performance due to perhaps a poor kite choice will impact the brand rep, so we need to ensure people get the info they need....like this kite is well suited from beginner all the way to pro rider...or this one is suited for advanced riders only. Bands that out info out there and encourage demo's seem to do well in sales and new rider support due to the hands on approach. Having riders win races does have an impact on some that see the product as performing well...whether it suits their particular needs is another story.

My experience is similar. No new rider knows that they need to want, so that first kite buy is a shot in the dark no matter how much info they have. I got a c kite too big for me that was frustrating, downsized and did ok, then went to a 5 line kite that killed all the fun. I went to 4 lines and never looked back. With my experience I now know what I need to look for in a kite. Not everyone does.

But irrespective of gear performance, what do brands need or need to be aware of? What associations do you draw? An example... Slingshot feels a little rebellious... Is that what they are trying to convey? Nis that true? Wy do I feel like that? Does it impact my purchase? It may if that's the message I want to send out at the beach... Sounds a little high school, but I'm sure to some degree that may be true. By the same token, Epic seems to build their brand around support and being hands on. I that your thought or experience? Again, no need to brand bash here at all... Really just trying to drill down and see how these companies are reaching you.


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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:44 pm 
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slangy used to actively promote their bad boy image with pics of tattooed dudes in low riders featured in their adds and juvenile pro riders doing all kinds of snow board esque things in their promotional edits. They seemed to give up on that and go all in with Lenten and Youri for a while, but some of that bad boy image has lasted, so there is a historical basis for what you expressed.

Indeed each brand has their persona, but its diluted when lasting opinions are formed and propagated with little real comparison.

Regionally brands have very different representation which also distorts perceptions of what is popular on the global scale.


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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:47 pm 
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Not companies are reaching us but the pro riders that win competitions. Then the Kiteforum knowitalls and then the price. My point about competitions is that a company that has a good R&D will show results. It's as old as the world that the better R&D wins the day. With Ozone the problem was I needed allaround and lightwind kites and their
Catalist didn't get good reviews on the Forum and their Zephyr was way too expensive. I still think they are the best kite brand because of all the experience they have in the field. So I went the second best Core for light wind Kite and loved it so much that bought 4 more. They just stay out of the water and let me learn. I loved the Rebel I owned but I spent more time swimming than kiting. Not a good selling point!


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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:49 pm 
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These days a lot of the big brands have a kite for all styles and then it all comes down to personal preference of style, bar system, etc. one factor everyone always talks about is cost. I find all brands to be expensive with the differences in cost minor overall. The only exeption is Switch. The kites r equal to any other in quality and performance. If kiters really want lower cost kites Switches business model is the way to go and i believe it would really open up the sport to get more people in on a budget. Just an fyi i ride cabrinha its my prefrence at the moment but have flown switch. Bottom line i like sticking to one brand, there r lots of cool brands but my biggest factor is cost and if i ever change brands im going to one that has a pricing system like switch and at the moment they r the only ones.


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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:36 pm 
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(In answer to Slingshot bi curious) I obviously like Core, it's under rated here in the UK, as for brands I wouldn't ride or sell them unless I'd wear the T Shirt.

A brand like Ozone is the name of a bleach brand where I come from and sounds like it, so has nothing to do with Surf however well it's built or flys, so you walk in a pub advertising bleach, I mean wtf?

Epic? Epic is an over used term for.. well Epic, epic this epic that and frankly it aint, didn't he epic himself into a building one time trying to look cool? So, no that doesn't do it for me, nor does Crazyfly wtf does that mean? You're mental and you fly?

Ocean rodeo? Who has a rodeo in the Ocean, it means nothing.
Flexifoil? It never had a chance, should have gone FFsurf or something, by the time they got going with Hadlow they'd sacked all their good guys and small tight communities don't like that sort of thing so they end up with a Mutiny. Trouble with Mutiny's they need to market themselves more positively and have failed to do that.

To have a brand name it also needs to mean something if you give it a name as such. Take Best, they called it Best then went and made the worst kites imaginable and from what I hear they are still doing it, so image wise only a few carry it in my mind for one reason or another, Naish, North Cabrinha, Slingy although they're doing their utmost to undo the good work.

So then there's Core, they need some help in the English speaking world, not least with their brochure translations and their new UK distributor will help them there I've no doubt, but their product is good so that's half the battle.

Anyway each to his own, that's another thing about Brands they all appeal differently to different people for different reason, it's what makes the world go round.


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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:09 am 
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Rhunt wrote:
These days a lot of the big brands have a kite for all styles and then it all comes down to personal preference of style, bar system, etc. one factor everyone always talks about is cost. I find all brands to be expensive with the differences in cost minor overall. The only exeption is Switch. The kites r equal to any other in quality and performance. If kiters really want lower cost kites Switches business model is the way to go and i believe it would really open up the sport to get more people in on a budget. Just an fyi i ride cabrinha its my prefrence at the moment but have flown switch. Bottom line i like sticking to one brand, there r lots of cool brands but my biggest factor is cost and if i ever change brands im going to one that has a pricing system like switch and at the moment they r the only ones.


Zian, Fluid, Gong as well. I think Flexifoil does something similar too, only a little more expensive. And more companies are beginning to sell online. Only not on lower prices...


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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:18 am 
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MAC-
I believe competions are about the athlete, not the kites.
King of the Air two years in a row, could have been won by any kiter in the comp and on any kite there.
They could have all drawn straws to decide what brand/model of kite they were gonna fly for the day and it would have made no difference.
That was about who caught the best gust of the day and who was performing at their peak potential.
There was absolutely no difference from brand to brand in the gear's ability to do what it took to win.
Robby Naish just happened to sponsor the kiters that won last year and this year.
PKRA is also about the athlete not the kite.

Ozone seems to have gotten a pretty solid lock on the top spots for course racing with the Edge for a couple of years, but that has little to do with anything other than course racing.
I think the Edge kites are just okay for all around freeriding for the average kiter.
The C4 was a great all arounder that has gotten more specific in the last couple versions therefore less appealing to a large audience.
The Catalyst, for a number of years, is too soft with the tiny tubes.
The Zephyr is very nice, a whole bunch of local kiters here managed to get used ones for super cheap a couple years ago, but I think there are a handful of better light wind kites now.

The Rebel kite that caused more swimming than flying is one of the easiest kites for freeriding ever, which is why they've sold so many for so long.
I don't care for five line kites, but the Rebel has always been a great kite.
By the way, Supa flies more Rebel kites than he does Core, his Core is a 19M only, and his wife flies only a 17M, otherwise they are on one in their large quiver of Rebels.

Pink-
So, you are saying that the spelling of the name of the company matters?...
Or the look of the logo matters?...and if it does not look good on a shirt, you will not ride their kites?.......really?
I think that is very strange, but there may be more people out there who care about color and logos and the sound of a name or other things that I would think are petty arbitrary, than I had guessed there were.

Ozone knows how to make a good wing because of their paragliding background.
Kiters that have a flying history that started on that side of things could not care less if it is the name of a bleach product.

Flexifoil was in the foil kite business before anybody ever was kiteboarding, so their name is their name.

Epic is an E name that looks like a continuation of the Eclipse product that Dimitri was involved with just prior to starting Epic, since many people liked the Eclipse kites, I think it sure made sense to come up with an E name.
His crash that you speak of was for a photo shoot to promote the Eclipse company he worked for, and he made the jump successfully six times prior to adding twenty pounds of camera equipment, and then made the jump successfully twice before crashing on the third attempt with camera on his back.
I assume you know that all pro athletes do promotional shoots and that they often do the same trick or jump (or basketball shot or snowboard jump) many times to get the right photo or video completed.
Not sure that stuff is always about trying to look cool, I'm sure it's often about business.

Best was named after Shannon Best who was part of the company at it's inception, and like Dimitri with Eclipse, he was the face that everyone knew (even though both were minor share holders, just like poor Lou Wainman). I think Best made cheapy kites in the beginning, but they have come a long way, and I'm not sure your description of their current product is accurate, but I do understand how you feel, ...for some reason I've never bought a Best kite either.

Not sure why you feel about Cabrinha the way you do, pretty pricey and pretty over rated IMO.

Not sure why you feel the way you do about Slingshot, they produce pretty consistently good flying kites for a decade or more, and they have a very nice board line, some of which is made in house, unlike almost any other kite company I know of......and their customer support has always been great.

I like the Core GTS2 that a local buddy flies, and it's pretty great that the GTS3 rocked it at the King of the Air this year, but I'm not sure the name is any cooler than the Epic name that you say is an over used word, so is Core ("dude, that was so core". So hardcore dude")
And I'm pretty sure they are graphically the most boring company in kiting.
So much for a Core T-Shirt! :D


Last edited by Oldnbroken on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:31 am 
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Starsky wrote:
MACTNKA wrote:
So all in all the Competitions results will give you the wants


Idk, that criteria would get me blasted if I posted it, but I'm not of the opinion that a race kite, or a hardcore freestyle kite or a pure wave kite is suited to the average free rider.

Brings me back to my point that few riders have much experience across multiple brands and form highly emotional opinions to in many ways rationalize their choices.

You were pretty quick to jump on my criticism of Core's advertising when it reads like Core make up 70% of your kite experience with only one other brand in the mix. To add to that you take one forum guys opinion as evidence when he is also clearly emotionally invested and generally provides some of the most emotional, frivolous and irrelevant posts on here. Regardless, you now profess a "a true love affair" has formed for the only kite brand you have had any success with. Of course you adapted to the kite! It's practically all you've known.

Lastly your opinion of North is now pretty poor as your initial experiences with the Rebel were frustrating. If you care to look, the Rebel is widely accepted as one of the all time legendary free ride kites with one of the best safety systems out there. You just didn't have the level of proficiency at that point to appreciate it. Over sheeting is a trim issue and common in used kites where front lines will stretch over time. You had proven kites with a proven track record but have a poor opinion of them due to your shortcomings, not the kites.

It could have easily gone the other way, where a used set of Cores could have frustrated you and some research led you to the many great reviews on the Rebel. With a properly trimmed kite you might just as we'll be a North fan, touting the incredible safety of the non death spiral properties of fifth line safety!

You seem to hold Ozone in high esteem without any personal experience whatsoever.

Again. Not a lot of reliable data shaping strong opinions.


You just got served....


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 Post subject: Re: What do you feel about kite brands
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:36 am 
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U r kiddin wright???


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