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 Post subject: Re: Convert North Quad Bar into single line flag out?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:58 am 
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Westozzy wrote:
Yeh vertical I asked some questions on the main forum if you could check including the one above..

although you just used the originial front line surely...


I replied there also. But I'll copy it here for people to follow up better, as I probably didn't explain myself very well before:

"I have modified a Quad bar, taking a metal ring and a ball stopper from a 5 lines bar.

The bar is still 100% North trust quad, with the same lines lengths for the 4 lines. But With the changes it flags on a single line, in my case the red one.

I put the photos side by side to show how the safety system is in fact the same idea for 5 lines of for the updated 4 lines."


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 Post subject: Re: Convert North Quad Bar into single line flag out?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:03 am 
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Ah got ya. Fair enough this won't help my plight then. Ta


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 Post subject: Re: Convert North Quad Bar into single line flag out?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:22 pm 
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Vertical,

Both Westozzy and I are concerned about the same thing. I hope you realize that the bar needs to slide out a lot further to make a single front line safety work safely, than it does with a fifth line safety... maybe even 3 times as far. Don’t be fooled it the safety works OK in low wind, the way you have it now... because in high wind, the kite may not stay on the water, but will rise up and loop and may come alive again.

I did a similar conversion and was happy yesterday when the wind went from 13 MPH up to 38MPH, and I threw the safety... and the bar went most of the way up to the kite... and needed to do this to keep the kite under control.

Also, check the way you have connected the large power line to the leader line, and beware of any “bumps” that would stop the lines from shooting through the hole in the bar, smoothly.

Show us a picture of the whole system layed out from the chicken loop to the upper front line split, or else nobody can give you any assurance of the safety of your remodeled bar and line system.

When you go to give your system a “real world” evaluation, you might want to do what I do... that is to use an old “pump leash” for your secondary release system. This is because, when things jam on your primary safety system, you may get a huge jerk and land on your head and never get a chance to hit the secondary release... soooo... with a breakable under-strength leash, like a pump leash... the pump leash will snap, as the instantaneous power burst comes on from a jammed safety situation... and you will be really glad the whole kite is gone, and your neck is not broken. Things happen FAST, in these situations. Beware.

Let us see what all your line lengths look like along with the method you used to connect them.


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 Post subject: Re: Convert North Quad Bar into single line flag out?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:31 pm 
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tomatkins wrote:
Vertical,

Both Westozzy and I are concerned about the same thing. I hope you realize that the bar needs to slide out a lot further to make a single front line safety work safely, than it does with a fifth line safety... maybe even 3 times as far.


Right. On a mini-5th line you only need to tilt the kite back far enough for the bridles to activate, which is about 2 meters.

On a single center line flagging systems you must flag the kite however much the longest length of a kite is. This will range from about 3-4 meters for the smallest kites like a 7 meter kite, up to 10-12 meters for a larger kite like a 17-19 meter kite.

I usually sew in my stopper on my single center line about 10-12 meters, that is halfway up the lines, just to make relaunch easier so the bar doesn't shoot all the way up to the kite.

It's just geometry. If the single center line is less than the longest length of the kite it can sometimes go into a death loop when you flag it out. Of course it might sometimes work if it happens to fall into the water at the right angle, so don't be fooled by it sometimes working. You want 10-12 meters that the bar shoots up to safely work with all your kites every single time, not just most of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Convert North Quad Bar into single line flag out?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Also posted this in the other topic.... conversion 5 to 4 line sigle flag north bar topic

@ Vertical: I assume you have left the Y-split at exactly the same position as it was while being a 5 line bar? So quite high up? I used to have it like this at well.

last month I decided to bring the Y-split further down. I had the feeling my draf does not like high split.

The problem here is that you want to make sure you still have the required minimum +/- half LE tube length of single line flag travel (do not know how to frase this correctly). To do this you bring the ring down and need a knot that does not go through stopperball but does (easily) go through the heart of the safety/CL. Depending on Ball, hole in Ball and thickness of line used this is works fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Convert North Quad Bar into single line flag out?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:11 pm 
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Pretty sure he used a normal quad for the convert, so a fifth line like I thought...

The only issue it see is it maybe getting caught..the bump as someone said...it should just keep flying all the way up that front line shouldn't it if it runs smoothly though the ring...which is a pain in itself unless you put another stopper up the front line.

Personally I like the double front, but the single is safer when shit hits the fan for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Convert North Quad Bar into single line flag out?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:51 am 
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I used a Quad bar to convert it to single line safety.

You don't need to add any extra stopper because in the quad bar, the safety pink/red line is a lot shorter than in the 5 lines setup, and therefore when you release it doesn't reach the kite.

Check the drawing that I did and you can see that the bar would not reach the kite because of the lower Y. When the stopper ball reaches the bar, it'll stop.

However, the more I think about it, the more are I'm inclined to add an extra 5th line to my quad bar (to maintain the low Y). It didn't really bother me having 5 lines when I was using the Rebels. I'll just leave it without tension for the Dice and that's it. So many times I've needed to self land the kite in high wind and nobody at the beach to help that 2 front lines makes the process very dangerous. And in the end, 4 or 5 lines, if the kite crashes hard in the surf you end up having to go back to the beach with 4 lines the same as the 5 lines. I would even say that the 5th line has been even better in that regard.

Attachment:
File comment: 4 vs 5 lines
schema.png
schema.png [ 37.17 KIB | Viewed 430 times ]


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