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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:36 am 
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just as a side note:
I don't think the problem is actually from chafing during flying or leaving the kite on the beach, it is when you pack the kite and you have unprotected hard plastic with edges (e.g. the inflation or multi pump valve) touching the canopy...

I take care of my kites like crazy and have other kiters make fun of me how meticulously I clean and pack them... I also never went on a trip with these kites where they were stuffed in a suitcase or something... I pack them dry, sand free and loose... but still, I had these issues...

I spoke to a North rider last week who was pumping up his kite about the issue... we then checked his kite in detail on the multi pump valves and the inflation valve... on almost every plastic piece we found the canopy was already weakened and we even found two pin holes...

there seems to be a reason why the other brands use neoprene covers on hard plastics...


oh, and just as a side note:
when I said "I'm done with North"... I have to make a clarification: I still have a Nugget 2014 which is holding up.. and I have the 2011 Dynos where these problems do not exist (no hard plastics anywhere on the kite!)


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:16 pm 
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I agree with the critique on the plastic parts. I noticed that the clips of the one pump connections to the struts eat throu their neoprene covers quickly. That leads to spikes right next to the canopy. No wonder you get pinholes from them :(


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:24 pm 
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IMO - The industry problem we have is the markup on kites is pretty significant so from a manufacturers perspective, remediating what appears to be a simple problem could easily come close 25%-75% of the actual value of the kite itself. Write it down to experience and I'm sure there will be fix 2016. Best we can do is know about the issue and mitigate with a piece of neoprene when packing. Just sucks but that's the facts.


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:33 pm 
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longbeachrider wrote:
IMO - The industry problem we have is the markup on kites is pretty significant so from a manufacturers perspective, remediating what appears to be a simple problem could easily come close 25%-75% of the actual value of the kite itself. Write it down to experience and I'm sure there will be fix 2016. Best we can do is know about the issue and mitigate with a piece of neoprene when packing. Just sucks but that's the facts.


well, yes and no... I hear what you are saying, BUT... the different brands are in the same industry... so thats not an excuse for North...

Fine if they fix it in 2016 or 2017... I'm not waiting... many brands solved those issues already in their 2012 products...


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:43 am 
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heinzbush wrote:
well, yes and no... I hear what you are saying, BUT... the different brands are in the same industry... so thats not an excuse for North...

Fine if they fix it in 2016 or 2017... I'm not waiting... many brands solved those issues already in their 2012 products...



Agreed. Manufacturers are ordering/building kites a season ahead and once they dump product into the distribution/retail channel and receive their $$$, they absolutely hate spending that money to remediate. Other brands have their "Achilles Heal".


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:44 am 
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longbeachrider wrote:
IMO - The industry problem we have is the markup on kites is pretty significant so from a manufacturers perspective, remediating what appears to be a simple problem could easily come close 25%-75% of the actual value of the kite itself. Write it down to experience and I'm sure there will be fix 2016. Best we can do is know about the issue and mitigate with a piece of neoprene when packing. Just sucks but that's the facts.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. You obviously have never seen a price sheet from a kite shop compared to other sports or other soft and hard goods.


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:25 am 
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NorCalNomad wrote:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. You obviously have never seen a price sheet from a kite shop compared to other sports or other soft and hard goods.


I'm talking about the manufacturer(s) and not retail.

Just a real hard road to do retail. There are formulas which work but its not everyone who can even execute on a successful formula even if they know it.


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:11 pm 
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Whoa. This took a turn over the weekend.

A. First of all, Babel, a huge apology. You were right and I was wrong. And I was kind of bitchy about it too. I'm very sorry.

B. Heinzbush, another apology. I don't blame you for switching brands if the patch was such a huge deal for you this year. I know it sounds terrible now, but I honestly had not heard a single complaint about chafe/holes in the canopy. Just today (I swear) I got a call from a dealer with a customer with exactly this problem in Miami and we offered to sew a patch on the space for the customer. I know that you were unhappy with this solution, but it seems pretty fair to me... It's the same thing that the factory would have done. I would think that it wouldn't affect resale if it was done cleanly by a professional shop, and as I mentioned, we'd be happy to pick up the cost for the alteration.

For the record, it's not that North or I have been lying about any issue. I really had not heard of a single person complaining about the cap chafing the canopy. I have 5 2014 Rebels in my demo quiver that are about exactly one year old. They have been used and abused all over North America/Mexico this past year, often rolled up sandy and wet, occasionally self rescued on, basically as thrashed as a kite can get in one year, and it does not show any signs of this same chafe. However, people treat kites differently, and even if you're taking exemplary care of your kite, there may be something that you do that causes the chafe. As far as this one customer in FL I found out that he was rolling his kite up with the cap off of the cover, and it appears that the little prongs inside the valve were causing the chafe. Regardless, as I said, if you have an issue with your Rebel chafing the canopy, contact your dealer and if you have any issues with that, contact me here.

Sorry to everyone for misinformation, I assure you it was unintentional. And if you own a 2014 Rebel I really wouldn't be stressed about this issue... Check your kite to see if you have any premature wear, and if you are at all worried about it, throw a small piece of repair tape on the canopy where it contacts the inflate valve as a precaution.

-Dan


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:36 pm 
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nah, nothing new...

another patronizing if not arrogant response from the headquarter.
everybody know that brands employee who gets free kites every season is much-much more careful with his gear than the ignorant vandalic average kiter who buys it for his own dear money and has no respect for the product whatsoever! how dare he accuse the respected brand of sloppiness!


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 Post subject: Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:27 am 
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Well I thought dans response was as honest as you can get. Hadn't heard any issues so that's what he said. And those demo kites etc do get treated badly. Then he got a call about the issue and he made an apology. He didn't need to mention that at all.

Now I think you owe an apology mate, as Dan comes across as one of the decent guys on here always willing to give advice and help and his information always has substance. I think you are way out of line.

Ps how people treat kites always has an impact on these sort of issues.

That being said to give some balance to the argument we did notice wear on the central strut on ne pump valve on the canopy on one of our dice kites at the end of last season. The plastics parts especially the joins on the strut itself do seems hard and sharp at the edges...patched it then did the same on all the other kites (the were used just as much) just in case. Problem solved. And I must say my buddy is one of those guys that scrunched his kites up, throws them in a wet bag and they sit in the back of his car for the next sessions, next to his unwashed bar! Not saying this is the reason behind the issues above before you get your knickers in a knot. Just saying this is the case for this guy, he doesn't look after his gear.

It's a bloody patch for gods sake.


Last edited by Westozzy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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