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A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

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GregWoj
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A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby GregWoj » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:52 am

Ok can someone please break down the difference of the A vs B setting on Cab kites? I had one guy tell me the B setting makes it turn faster and increase bottom end. But that contradicts my Core kite because further back setting (equivalent to Cabs B setting) says slower turning for wakestyle.

I guess it comes down to physics... If the rear line is attached further from the wingtip that translates to me as Slower turning but tilts the kite with a different angle of attack that applies more power with less depower (more low end and perhaps higher boosting?)

Lastly: Does the A vs B Setting really make that much of a difference? And how does the B setting coupled with rear pig tail knot setting compare to A Setting on first knot pig tail setting.

Thanks in advance guys

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby fogmeister » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:08 am

i can help you out here greg did that to most of my cabrinha kites except contra so switchblades and crossbows...........I used the b setting

more depower sooner depower the trow between power and depower is shorter
bar pressure increases more direct feel
didn't notice change in turning speed though might be there its hard to notice
also kite more stable doesn't react to small inputs as quick

so I changed all my kites as I liked the more direct feel and shorter depower throw

try it does make noticeable difference...haven't tried with steering pigtail options.

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby Eurus » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:01 am

GregWoj wrote:Ok can someone please break down the difference of the A vs B setting on Cab kites? I had one guy tell me the B setting makes it turn faster and increase bottom end. But that contradicts my Core kite because further back setting (equivalent to Cabs B setting) says slower turning for wakestyle.

I guess it comes down to physics... If the rear line is attached further from the wingtip that translates to me as Slower turning but tilts the kite with a different angle of attack that applies more power with less depower (more low end and perhaps higher boosting?)

Lastly: Does the A vs B Setting really make that much of a difference? And how does the B setting coupled with rear pig tail knot setting compare to A Setting on first knot pig tail setting.

Thanks in advance guys


A setting makes the kite turn quicker and creates less bar pressure
B setting makes the kite turn slower and creates more bar pressure

The angle of attack remains the same regardless of the setting you choose. You change the angle of attack based on the length of your steering lines and flying lines. Shorten your steering lines and you increase the leading edge angle. i.e. the leading edge tilts back more. Lengthen your steering lines and you decrease your leading edge angle. i.e. the leading edge tilts down more.

This is why when you depower your kite loses power. The leading edge is tilting down into the wind and therefore more wind passes over the top of the canopy as opposed to under the canopy which creates more lift.

And to answer your last question the answer is "yes" there is a substantial difference between the two settings and this becomes very apparent in stronger winds.

If you want the most power, best boosting, and best hang time then set it on the B setting and attach your lines on the last knot (the one closest to the kite). This will shorten your steering lines by approximately 3 inches.

If you want the fastest turning and lightest bar pressure then set in on the A setting and attach your lines on the first knot (the one furthest from the kite).

All of the above only applies to a properly tuned bar where all lines are equal length.

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby dragnfly » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:21 pm

If you want the fastest turning and lightest bar pressure then set in on the A setting and attach your lines on the first knot (the one furthest from the kite).


I don't think thats right is it? If you attach your lines to the knot furthest from the kite you will be depowering your kite, making it turn slower.

I've not messed about with the A B setting, but I will do soon because my Chaos's turn silly fast sometimes - but I often vary between the middle knot and the end knot (furthest from kite), depending on the windstrength. If I think its at the higher end of the kite to get the extra depower, I use the last knot, if I think its around the sweetspot I use the middle knot.

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby Faxie » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:23 pm

Eurus wrote:
GregWoj wrote:Ok can someone please break down the difference of the A vs B setting on Cab kites? I had one guy tell me the B setting makes it turn faster and increase bottom end. But that contradicts my Core kite because further back setting (equivalent to Cabs B setting) says slower turning for wakestyle.

I guess it comes down to physics... If the rear line is attached further from the wingtip that translates to me as Slower turning but tilts the kite with a different angle of attack that applies more power with less depower (more low end and perhaps higher boosting?)

Lastly: Does the A vs B Setting really make that much of a difference? And how does the B setting coupled with rear pig tail knot setting compare to A Setting on first knot pig tail setting.

Thanks in advance guys


A setting makes the kite turn quicker and creates less bar pressure
B setting makes the kite turn slower and creates more bar pressure

The angle of attack remains the same regardless of the setting you choose. You change the angle of attack based on the length of your steering lines and flying lines. Shorten your steering lines and you increase the leading edge angle. i.e. the leading edge tilts back more. Lengthen your steering lines and you decrease your leading edge angle. i.e. the leading edge tilts down more.

This is why when you depower your kite loses power. The leading edge is tilting down into the wind and therefore more wind passes over the top of the canopy as opposed to under the canopy which creates more lift.

And to answer your last question the answer is "yes" there is a substantial difference between the two settings and this becomes very apparent in stronger winds.

If you want the most power, best boosting, and best hang time then set it on the B setting and attach your lines on the last knot (the one closest to the kite). This will shorten your steering lines by approximately 3 inches.

If you want the fastest turning and lightest bar pressure then set in on the A setting and attach your lines on the first knot (the one furthest from the kite).

All of the above only applies to a properly tuned bar where all lines are equal length.


Imagine the steering line attachments right behind the front line attachments, and pulling the bar the same amount.. that's what he meant with more AOA.

But Cabrinha's a bit strange with naming their features... with every other company it's 'bar pressure/turning speed' but nooooo Cabrinha has to be special and name it different.

Turning speed can be interpreted multiple ways as well... with the more pressure setting the maximum turning speed is higher, only because of the more time and power it takes to get to that point the kite will turn slower in the end. More responsive though because of the higher tension, that's why some people mistake it for a faster turning kite.

Btw, when you depower there's just as much wind above and under the kite. Difference is the wind on the underside doesn't get deflected downwards as much anymore.

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby GregWoj » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:02 pm

Thanks bros.... all good info. I will experiment next time out on B setting with knots in the back - middle - front to figure out the best combo.

I typically ride on the A setting with knots on the rear pig tail (furthest back). This gives me decent turning speed and power. I'll move to B - middle knot to see how that helps performance and jumping. My goal is to get more boost without losing bottom end (if anything, gain more bottom end) and turning speed. I know there has to be a give and take. As im progressing Im trying to now fine tune the kite to match what what I want - and thats to get a bit more boost on my jumping and that seems to be where the B setting can help.

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby Eurus » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:37 am

dragnfly wrote:If you want the fastest turning and lightest bar pressure then set in on the A setting and attach your lines on the first knot (the one furthest from the kite).


I don't think thats right is it? If you attach your lines to the knot furthest from the kite you will be depowering your kite, making it turn slower.



No. My original statement is correct. The assumption is you have a properly tuned bar which means all of your lines are equal length. If your lines are all equal length and you attach your lines to the first knot at each connection point then your lines are all still equal length. If you move your steering lines (outside lines) up the progression of knots (attached to the kite) then you are shortening your steering lines. This causes more load to be placed on the steering lines because it slightly increases the leading edge angle to allow more wind to pass under the canopy and this is definitely not depowering the kite. It actually increases the power of the kite.

When you pull on your depower strap to depower your kite you are lowering the leading edge angle which spills wind over the top of the kite. This is why your kite depowers. Less wind passes under the canopy because you have changed the leading edge angle.

Next time you are in a swimming pool take your hand and make it flat (palm down) just below the surface of the water. Then move it through the water (like how a helicopter blade would turn). Then slightly increase the angle of your hand (point it up more) and your hand will want to rise to the surface of the water. This is the equivalent of shortening your steering lines. It creates more lift.

To simulate depowering your kite tilt your hand forward as you are moving it through the water and it will move deeper below the surface of the water.

This is exactly how a kite responds to you changing the leading edge on your kite.

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby experienced1 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:06 am

Kite will also relaunch easier on the A setting.
When sheeting out, the kite depowers due to change in angle, but it also fly
faster to the edge of the window where there is less power
steve

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:29 am

Eurus wrote:It actually increases the power of the kite.

Less wind passes under the canopy because you have changed the leading edge angle.

It creates more lift.

No, all you're doing is altering the angle of attack.

There's a fixed amount of wind flowing over the kite, you can't reduce it by changing the AoA which is why "depower" is a misnomer.

And there's the answer, kinda - you're not creating more lift, you're effectively trading "airspeed" for drag/lift. If there's enough wind that you can sheet in (max AoA for given kite/bar settings) hold it and not stall the kite, then it's all good...

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Re: A vs B Setting on Cabrinha kites

Postby Eurus » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:34 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Eurus wrote:It actually increases the power of the kite.

Less wind passes under the canopy because you have changed the leading edge angle.

It creates more lift.

No, all you're doing is altering the angle of attack.

There's a fixed amount of wind flowing over the kite, you can't reduce it by changing the AoA which is why "depower" is a misnomer.

And there's the answer, kinda - you're not creating more lift, you're effectively trading "airspeed" for drag/lift. If there's enough wind that you can sheet in (max AoA for given kite/bar settings) hold it and not stall the kite, then it's all good...


If there's enough wind? Dude you have no clue you are talking about. You can absolutely create more lift by changing the leading edge angle and the steering line settings in a "fixed amount of wind".

Why the hell do you think kite companies make depower straps, offer multiple steering settings on the kite and multiple line length settings?

To change the flight characteristics which either increases or decreases the performance of the kite.
Last edited by Eurus on Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.


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