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Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:49 pm

TheRussian wrote:I learnt and still ride with two "normal" (not loose) footstraps.

I like the feel they provide, I like leaning against the board & it "feels" planted - I would not even consider strapless or one strap - not saying one approach is right or wrong, you should do what you are comfortable with.

The main proviso's for learning are:
Helmet
Impact Vest
Impact shorts (my thighs were black & blue)
Dont ride overpowered - you'll learn less - but will learn how to ride overpowered.

My high aspect foil has arrived - so back to square one for me :roll:
Good sane advice, do what you are comfortable with :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby irwe » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:24 pm

First day I tried to Hydrofoil behind a jet ski I was in straps. I got up and riding but was pitched forward and the foil went backward. I the leverage of the foil almost snapped my ankles.
Day 2 I tried strapless behind a boat and got up but again after some riding I was pitched forward , This time the foil came forward as I fell off the board. My face was directly heading for the foil. I covered my face with my arms and my elbows hit the foil. It was like taking your elbows and smashing them against the edge of concrete stairs.
I had a helmet, mouthguard and wetsuit on but next time will wear an impact vest along with inline skating elbow, knee and thigh protectors.
The inline equipment is not designed to be wet. Maybe a manufacture could design some protective gear that would suit the water as the popularity of KBH grows. It would also be good for KBH schools

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby dwaynej » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:14 am

No mention of harnesses... Any benefit to wearing a seat harness vs a waist harness while learning?

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby cglazier » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:00 am

dwaynej wrote:Any benefit to wearing a seat harness vs a waist harness while learning?
Whatever you prefer, once again.. 'do what you are comfortable with :thumb: '.

:wink: CG

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby Randahl » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:54 am

TPink wrote:Is there any value to learning to fly behind a boat??

I've finished building board/foil and am really set on riding strapless. My friend has a wakeboard boat on a small lake with an elevated tow line on a tower.

What are the downsides to mixing in some tow behind sessions to start?

thx,
If you have the choice between foiling with a kite or being towed I would opt for the kite. It involves different angles and physics being pulled from a harness and edging against a kite vs. being pulled from straight ahead by a tow rope. It feels less stable behind a boat because there isn't much to lean against. It's close in feeling to trying to chase your kite downwind and there's barely any pull or maybe sporadic pull. That's when I get the most wobbly. The most stable I feel is when I am leaning against the kite on a good reach. You could edge out to the side when being towed to replicate being on a reach but my guess is if you are in the learning stage you wont be doing much more than trying to stay in control behind the boat.

The other annoying thing is being stuck in the wake turbulence which can feel like riding a skateboard over gravel.

I guess if your only choice is to sit at home on kiteforum or go get towed, I would go get towed,

for straps, I don't know how you can learn strapless except for a few gifted individuals. You need something to be able to manipulate the board with your feet with unless you're a whiz at one-hand kite control. A strap will save a lot of learning time and avoid wasting time dragging back to your board everytime you get pulled over the top of the deck. I still use one. I still move my back foot around a lot. I still find myself standing narrow stance after jibing and I take a couple of weight shifts to get my foot in the sweet spot. It's time I went to the three strap configuration. I think strapless has its place, especially for cruising.

Learn with a small kite on solid wind days. Big kites on marginal days are just going to be frustrating. You want consistent controllable power, not off and on power or needing to stroke a huge kite to get a little pull.

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby Europ2 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:53 am

Randahl wrote:If you have the choice between foiling with a kite or being towed I would opt for the kite. It involves different angles and physics being pulled from a harness and edging against a kite vs. being pulled from straight ahead by a tow rope. It feels less stable behind a boat because there isn't much to lean against. It's close in feeling to trying to chase your kite downwind and there's barely any pull or maybe sporadic pull. That's when I get the most wobbly. The most stable I feel is when I am leaning against the kite on a good reach. You could edge out to the side when being towed to replicate being on a reach but my guess is if you are in the learning stage you wont be doing much more than trying to stay in control behind the boat.

The other annoying thing is being stuck in the wake turbulence which can feel like riding a skateboard over gravel.

I guess if your only choice is to sit at home on kiteforum or go get towed, I would go get towed,

.
Randahl actually, it depends on... the boat.
This school in France (these pionneers again :roll: ) has developped a 20 USD lateral device assembly , that invalidates all the drawbacks of "traditional" towing you've mentioned :wink:

If not clear, the rider has been kiting for less than 1 yr. The video shows him after 45min on the simulator.

better definition vid here

What you need is a traction point 3 m above the rider:
- a 5m+ semi rigid boat (inflatable with rigid hull)
- a 5m+ long mast (windsurf, laser, ...) to ensure a high traction point
- 2 shrouds to maintain the mast perpendicular at mid length of the boat, preferably spectra for the least possible stretch but 4 knotted windsurf board belts should do the job as on the vid.

Even if the kite school instructor isn't very keen on details in order not to give ideas to competitors :nono: he :
- ensures that he can mount the pole on the boat within 5 minutes...
- does it on both the sides/tack of the boat.

Key points for a fast learning curve :
- to be able to edge and ride upwind comfortably on a TT, better still a directional,
- short mast KBFH (70 to 80cm) and low volume board (thin) for a better grab during waterstarts
- high traction point (2,5m+) on the boat,
- flat water
- a boat driver who knows how to stabilize the boat at 8/9kn to learn driving the board without flying
- a boat driver who knows how to stabilize the boat at 11/12kn to learn flying.
- insisting on the riding side you don't like (the "wrong" one)
- possibly a person on the opposite side of the boat to balance it (on the vid at 0:15' we can a 10yo boy not even sitting ), meaning that depending on the boat size, it might not be necessary. [Disclaimer: must be carefully tested]

A more experienced rider in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAJXpFL6CXQ

Mast-base details: a straight pole (male part) inserted in an inverted V (female part)
Could be a tripod for better efficiency and faster side change.
KBFH simulator.jpg
KBFH simulator.jpg (33.14 KiB) Viewed 1425 times
Last edited by Europ2 on Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby IanNJ » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:45 pm

If the kiter is a proficient strapless rider would you recomend they ditch the straps when learning altogether?

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby revhed » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:04 pm

IanNJ wrote:If the kiter is a proficient strapless rider would you recomend they ditch the straps when learning altogether?
YES! :thumb:
Most will say that to control the board once up flying if not racing or jumping can be done easy without straps and the freedom of foot placement is wonderful.
The water start is hard in the beggining, good timing needed.
This is why I love my front foot hook once again.
I do strapless water starts almost all the time as my foot hook is mounted further forward and only used when in chop, super strong wind or just tired.
The other advantage of learning strapless is if you ever run aground you will risk much less damage to you beloved KBHF.
For sure it goes without saying that any crash strapless is much safer!
For me the key is kite pull timing coupled with the board being still almost vertical, on the rail, strut horizontal, near the surface.
You will need to experiment with where in the wind window the kite needs to be when you put your feet on the board and how much to dive into the power zone to get up without being ejected.
Not enough pull from the kite will make it hard to keep your feet against the board, whereas to much and you risk getting pulled up and over the board.
Also needed is the correct board angle slightly down wind as for other styles.
A visual reference on the board is useful to find where to place your feet, so once up and flying in trim in a stance you like, look down quickly and note where your feet are for the next strapless water strart.
Enjoy, and if you find it is not working maybe try something else.
I know of experienced KBHF pilots that took a long afternoon to get it down and others who gave up or never even tried.
As I finished I remembered that I think P F flys strapless, maybe he will add his thoughts?
R H

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby TPink » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:13 pm

revhed wrote:
IanNJ wrote:If the kiter is a proficient strapless rider would you recomend they ditch the straps when learning altogether?
YES! :thumb:
Most will say that to control the board once up flying if not racing or jumping can be done easy without straps and the freedom of foot placement is wonderful.
The water start is hard in the beggining, good timing needed.
This is why I love my front foot hook once again.
I do strapless water starts almost all the time as my foot hook is mounted further forward and only used when in chop, super strong wind or just tired.
The other advantage of learning strapless is if you ever run aground you will risk much less damage to you beloved KBHF.
For sure it goes without saying that any crash strapless is much safer!
For me the key is kite pull timing coupled with the board being still almost vertical, on the rail, strut horizontal, near the surface.
You will need to experiment with where in the wind window the kite needs to be when you put your feet on the board and how much to dive into the power zone to get up without being ejected.
Not enough pull from the kite will make it hard to keep your feet against the board, whereas to much and you risk getting pulled up and over the board.
Also needed is the correct board angle slightly down wind as for other styles.
A visual reference on the board is useful to find where to place your feet, so once up and flying in trim in a stance you like, look down quickly and note where your feet are for the next strapless water strart.
Enjoy, and if you find it is not working maybe try something else.
I know of experienced KBHF pilots that took a long afternoon to get it down and others who gave up or never even tried.
As I finished I remembered that I think P F flys strapless, maybe he will add his thoughts?
R H

What if you mounted a short loop (6" nylon strap) to the board, between your feet. Hold the board vertical against your feet with your back hand, and dive the kite with your front hand.

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Re: Learning to Kite Board Hydro Foil, Safely

Postby cglazier » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:03 pm

Learning without straps would certainly make things much more difficult. I do not understand why anyone would want to. It would be like first learning to kiteboard strapless.. possible but not easy.

At times I ride strapless and lately with straps. Both are fun. Strapless feels more nimble and makes foot switches much easier. It feels great. But to do jumps, backrolls and to go fast you need straps. And that feels great too. It is a shame that anyone is stuck on just one mode or the other.

Anyway, do whatever you want but don't be afraid to ride with straps or strapless. Both are fun.

:wink: CG


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