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Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

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Airseal
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Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Airseal » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:29 am

I learn something new everyday in this forum. I’d like to thank you all who have been contributing to this forum. I started with Carafino last Summer on a race board with free ride wing. I mastered touch down jibes, but far from even attempting to do foiling (or air) jibes or tacks. I learned the concept from Gunner & Ketos (thru their excellent videos). In some reason, I don’t get the right momentum to do the move. I know very little about Ketos, but their video seems very impressive.



Question: Which foil would be the easiest one to practice foiling (or air) jibes and tacks with the least frustration? - A foil that would not collapse at low speeds when switching the feet.

I am looking one among the intermediate categories - Alpine, Ketos, Magma, Zeeko (may be something else?). I am looking forward hearing from the EU demo event next week in France. Thanks.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:46 am

Some of them will be easy indeed, f.ex the Ketos Free Cruising Wing.

What you want is a big wing, and/or with lots of lift (camber), and a stable hydrofoil, so you can practice at lower speeds with much less sensitivity and risk.

A low AR wing will also normally be somewhat easier as less stall/pitch sensitive, and a long fuselage (or to some extent a bigger rear wing) is good.

You should avoid both small, fast high AR low cambered racewings (and really short fuselages), if you want the easiest for air transitions.

But remember, if you choose the easiest for air transitions, it will typically also be the most boring and slow foil, that you will outgrow fast :roll:

You can not have both :wink:

Some has started on the original Carafino, and it is quite easy to learn carving/turning on this one :thumb:
But after that, most get bored and move on :(
Awesome for schools or first time hydrofoilers !

Having said that, there is a huge difference on whether you are the "race" type or the "fun/freeride" type, as the latter can enjoy the original one for years.

8) PF

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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby gmb13 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:51 am

Peter_Frank wrote:Some of them will be easy indeed, f.ex the Ketos Free Cruising Wing.



You should avoid both small, fast high AR low cambered racewings (and really short fuselages), if you want the easiest for air transitions.

But remember, if you choose the easiest for air transitions, it will typically also be the most boring and slow foil, that you will outgrow fast :roll:

You can not have both :wink:




8) PF

Not quite. Some of the Big High AR Race wings bring a lot of stability and are super easy to Foiling tack and gybe and they are winning races on them.

I found that one some of the low AR foils I tested the Foiling Gybes and tacks where harder as the roll and yaw stability was not so good on them.

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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:16 am

Indeed yes.

That's why I wrote "small" race wings, as the bigger ones are not that difficult.

8) PF

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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Robsw6 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:49 am

gmb13 wrote: Some of the Big High AR Race wings bring a lot of stability and are super easy to Foiling tack and gybe and they are winning races on them.

I found that one some of the low AR foils I tested the Foiling Gybes and tacks where harder as the roll and yaw stability was not so good on them.

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Gunnar please name names or pm me !!!

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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Airseal » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Could anyone explain how the larger race wings (high AR) can provide a more roll stability than the wider free ride wings (low AR)? From the writings in this forum, I get the impression that a larger rear wing has something to do with stability during the transition move. What ultimately determines the roll stability?

It is easy to understand that the length of fuselage has to do with pitch stability, but understanding the roll stability is beyond my head.

Does anyone have information on the length of fuselage from different brands? (as Peter-Frank listed the length of struts of each brand in the forum) . Thanks

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:57 pm

A higher AR wing with higher span, and or a more flat wing (typical race wings) will have less roll tendency.

Which IMO is really bad for freeride, as it will almost only ride straight, and be horrible to turn with.

It is not so simple though, as a well balanced racelike hydrofoil can still have good turning ability, even with a relatively high span or quite flat, so it is all about the full balance of everything, and not just theoretical views based on general properties :roll:

I think the pitch stability, which is better (less sensitive) with lower AR wings, are the most important for being able to learn air transitions, apart from being able to ride at really low speeds without stalling.

Have not ridden that many different foils and wings myself, admit, only 8.

But almost every single one have had too much roll stability for my liking - only a few felt good and not too "stiff".

So I dont see roll stability (stiffness) as a positive thing, not even for air transitions - but it seems we dont agree on this one, and fine with different likings :naughty:

The main reason why wings have anhedral or downswept tips, is because otherwise they would be almost impossible to tilt/turn and carve in a pleasant easy way.

But agree, that bigger wings no matter what shape and outline, are easier, yes :thumb:
Also agree, that IF you can force/turn the board around, roll stability will make it even easier, at least never be a downside when stepping around :naughty:

So higher span, more area at the tips - will make the wing more roll stable/stiff so it will not roll/turn as easy.
When up hydrofoiling for the very first times, one is amazed that the wing is TOTALLY stiff and you dont need to balance anything, it does this fully by itself.
And later you will find it is actually difficult to roll this thing, because of this :wink:

8) PF

PS: I still suck at air transitions and fail most of them, so dont take my word for much :wink:
Especially with the 2 strap setup, instead of 3, it is hard.
Easy with the 2 strap when not foiling though, just as on a waveboard :rollgrin:
On the other hand, sometimes when you CAN do things fluid, you focus on different aspects instead, and forget why it was difficult at first :roll:

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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Airseal » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:10 pm

By looking at the shape of the front wing (Levitaz), can any one tell whether it is purely for race or all around (free ride) foil? Thanks
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lz-kitefoil-r01a.jpg

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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Airseal » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:11 pm

I have one more picture from Levitaz - front wing.
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Re: Easiest Hydrofoil to Learn Air Transition

Postby Airseal » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:14 pm

I made a mistake; This one is their front wing; the previous one was rear wing.
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