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Concept Air Smart Wave 6.5 & 4.5 & 3

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kitexpert
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Re: Concept Air Smart Wave 6.5 & 4.5 & 3

Postby kitexpert » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:59 pm

Thanks jannik and Regis for your good answers. More than anything I think we've discussed different interpretations, I don't see much disagreement.

LEI's and single skins having obviously different construction than foil kites is IMO the main reason for different characteristics between them. Lot of single skin manners can been seen in strutless kites, but of course in any LEI. However small PA and heavier construction of usual LEI's limit low end.

It's ok if you Regis won't buy my interpretation or claim for correspondence between weight and drag. A bit paradoxically I feel like we've changed places: you have underlined the importance of low weight, I have said aerodynamic advantages are worth added weight. But because we have meant slightly different things for performance all this is understandable.

L/D can be increased by two way: having more lift or less drag (ok, third way: more D, even more L). Single skins use this third option because they tolerate so high AoA's before backstall and have very much bridle line drag. If you fly single skin kite through the window it first accelerates very fast but then reaches its flying speed which is limited by L/D. For high performance foil kite limiting factor is the size of the wind window (normal line lenght and windspeed).

So line drag is not very harmful for light wind performance. It limits upwind, high speeds and jumping ability though. LIft of a foil kite is limited differently and more than with a single skin, because if more lift is tried to achieve by adding camber it makes kite too unstable. Then also depower suffers a lot. AoA can not be increased because of backstall.

Thank you Horst Sergio :wink:

I agree with your opinions very much. Perhaps I'm having now a bit more active period for kites. All these new foils and also PanTau's wonderful work with LEI designs gives inspiration. I have some ideas, or combinations of used solutions developing or in process... If you or Regis or someone has a vision what could be useful or needed feel free to comment or suggest.

stefFZ
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Style: Strapless surfing
Gear: Concept Air Waves & Pulsions. Still a couple of Flysurfers P4.
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Re: Concept Air Smart Wave 6.5 & 4.5 & 3

Postby stefFZ » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:52 pm

Interesting discussion!

This said the Concept Air Wave is a performance kite ... for wave riding. Those of you who used old mid ratio foils and even LEIs may remember that people used to sell us beginner / intermediate foil kites as good wave kites. I never liked this approach, in particular with accumulating experience kitesurfing in waves. LEIs designers did get it with dedicated wave kites but no one followed that route with a foil kite design. At the same time, Flysurfer stopped doing R & D in non beginner low/mid ratio kites. They did a huge work on high ratio kites, this is not a critique (!). I liked the psycho 4 and was still using them but it was a 2008 design without new inputs over the years. I had the chance though that Armin sent me a Psycho 4m prototype that I tested many times in strong winds (30/45 knots) and I knew that small foil kites could be very good in strong winds. But even after many emails, I could not convince him that there was an opportunity there (... and he may have been completely right for a brand like Flysurfer and seeing all they have done since then). This is when I started sending emails around and started exchanging with Benoît Tremblay at Concept Air. I had a sort of love at first sight with the Concept Air Smart design (the first prototype that Benoît did some years ago without really going further and which was lying in a cupboard in his workshop). The main idea as we progressed further was to design a performance kite for wave riding, not a beginner/intermediate foil kite that would be ok/good in waves. If it works for beginners / intermediate (and I am sure it works -- I even think that for snowkiting the Wave will be nice and a 5th line would be a nice add-on for this use), great but that was not the idea. This was of course a challenge for Benoît because I am not at all an expert in kite design but I know what I expect from a foil kite in waves.

Right know my quiver is : Waves 3 / 4.5 / 6.5 + pulsion 9m (again a mid-ratio kite that I would call a performance kite and not a beginner kite -- for instance, upwind is impressive with a surfboard on its low-range given its ratio). I would not mind adding a pulsion 12m though. That's the first time I think that my quiver is complete. I could ride these for a long time (I even have another Wave 4.5 as a back up just in case!)... it does not mean that the Waves could not progress further, that another consensus on flying characteristics could be better, etc. but now I focus rather on adding the last piece of my quiver, a new surfboard, I am perfectly fine with the kites and that's cool :-) (thanks Ben if you read me!!!)

Stef

flying grandpa
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 am
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Local Beach: Siemiany, Rewa
Favorite Beaches: Soma Bay, Valdevaqueros, Karwia
Style: hydrofoil long distance, slalom, waves
Gear: ZEEKO, OZONE
Location: Poland

Re: Concept Air Smart Wave 6.5 & 4.5 & 3

Postby flying grandpa » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:15 pm

Just after few sessions at Manawa/LeMorne/Mauritius with Smart 6,5 on 18m lines/Spitfire LW and winds around 15 knots for my 90kg. Smart came back from Benoit with reinforced trailing edge. Now it is strong enough, checked, as I usually put kites in the drink ewentually.

I feel Smart in my hands like a cream. Its smooooooothness in power delivery is fantastic. On foilboard you are high above water. I remember sharp yanks in gusty winds or when you lose tension riding down the wave with LEI.
Not with Smart. It sits where you want it and delivers as much power, as you want.
HF waterstarts stright into the air are a piece of cake. Relaunch takes 2-3 sec. Puling one steering line. There are waves at Manawa.
What will I do with my LEI's now.

borist
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Re: Concept Air Smart Wave 6.5 & 4.5 & 3

Postby borist » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:43 pm

I am intrigued. Keep those reviews coming. Well performing kite with minimal pack size and simple setup is the right way to go IMO. Now where can I find $$$ for those.
Reading thru the thread, my ozone HL 12m, plus SW 6.5, 4.5 or 3, might make for a good quiver, right?
Grandpa, how low can you go with SW 6.5 and Spitfire XLW?

flying grandpa
Medium Poster
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 am
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Siemiany, Rewa
Favorite Beaches: Soma Bay, Valdevaqueros, Karwia
Style: hydrofoil long distance, slalom, waves
Gear: ZEEKO, OZONE
Location: Poland

Re: Concept Air Smart Wave 6.5 & 4.5 & 3

Postby flying grandpa » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:53 am

Not an easy answer. Spent to little time with Smart. I would say 14 kts av, taking into account that on waves you need a bit less power to start.


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