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How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

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SalmonSlayer
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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby SalmonSlayer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:26 am

haare wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:54 am

Here is my build and my new plan also.

Thank you for taking the time time to answer my questions haare. So simple

nixmatters
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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby nixmatters » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:44 pm

TomW wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:08 pm
BWD,
...
The bar ends have the lines going through the carbon, so even if the ends break, it's still functional to get back.
...
Guys, I'm not into racing and won't ever be, but I'm tempted to explore the DIY path.
So my question is: would a single line inside the carbon tube, connecting both line leaders, provide sufficient safety against accidental breaking of the tube apart (or just the bar end) and loosing control of the kite?
I noticed above comment from TomW and just want to make sure that's what it means? Cheers

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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:42 am

So I ordered supplies to make a carbon bar. Today I was out foiling on 9m lei with LF response bar in 12mph increasing to 20mph winds and became way overpowered. I tried to get an idea of the max abuse a bar might get foiling and realized I was loading it up with good ~50lbs?? of bar pressure when really cranking upwind. There were times when at max sheet out against the stopper too and couldn’t tell how much Force in that instance. I’ll probably baby my diy bar a bit and make sure I rig down right away when appropriate. I only freeride foil with Lei.

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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby TomW » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:44 pm
TomW wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:08 pm
BWD,
...
The bar ends have the lines going through the carbon, so even if the ends break, it's still functional to get back.
...
Guys, I'm not into racing and won't ever be, but I'm tempted to explore the DIY path.
So my question is: would a single line inside the carbon tube, connecting both line leaders, provide sufficient safety against accidental breaking of the tube apart (or just the bar end) and loosing control of the kite?
I noticed above comment from TomW and just want to make sure that's what it means? Cheers
If I get you right you mean the leaders go from one end of the bar to the other?
I don't think that will help. The bar will probably fail in the center hole area. If it does, the kites likely going to loop. Then eject..
Im becoming more sceptical to making carbon bar due risk of failure. The more I think about it, the more concerned I'm getting...

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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby Peert » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:17 pm

TomW wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 pm
Im becoming more sceptical to making carbon bar due risk of failure. The more I think about it, the more concerned I'm getting...
Why not test it and see if it can handle the force you assume it will face?

Easy enough to support it at the tips and hang weights from the centre.

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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby TomW » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:24 pm

Peert wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:17 pm
TomW wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 pm
Im becoming more sceptical to making carbon bar due risk of failure. The more I think about it, the more concerned I'm getting...
Why not test it and see if it can handle the force you assume it will face?

Easy enough to support it at the tips and hang weights from the centre.
How much? And what about dynamic force, meaning a weight falling on it. I tried to research what manufacturers use as force needed to fail, but I think it's a trade secret.

nixmatters
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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby nixmatters » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:17 pm

TomW wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 pm
nixmatters wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:44 pm
TomW wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:08 pm
BWD,
...
The bar ends have the lines going through the carbon, so even if the ends break, it's still functional to get back.
...
Guys, I'm not into racing and won't ever be, but I'm tempted to explore the DIY path.
So my question is: would a single line inside the carbon tube, connecting both line leaders, provide sufficient safety against accidental breaking of the tube apart (or just the bar end) and loosing control of the kite?
I noticed above comment from TomW and just want to make sure that's what it means? Cheers
If I get you right you mean the leaders go from one end of the bar to the other?
I don't think that will help. The bar will probably fail in the center hole area. If it does, the kites likely going to loop. Then eject..
Im becoming more sceptical to making carbon bar due risk of failure. The more I think about it, the more concerned I'm getting...
Yes, TomW - but I'd rather keep the connecting 'safety' line separate, so the leaders can be changed if needed. Тhe 'safety' line will be glued inside the center piece in in most DIY designs.
Wherever the bar snaps, the safety line will still allow you to regain control of the kite (in 'a kind of 'handles' mode) and quickly get back to shore.

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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby TomW » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:46 pm

Nix,

Might work. But i think you are going to fall or drop like if the bar breaks.
Then you are disoriented in the water, trying to figure out what happened, find those loose bar ends that are folded up, twisted (?) around centerlines.

TomW
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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby TomW » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:55 pm

I guess i could destruction test the one i built - i have spare core bar ( bare) i can use instead of it.

This was discussed before- Its not clear how much force and what dynamic is correct test force.
One way is to say that the rear steering lines are rated at 300kg breaking- the front at 500kg. theres no way I hang 1000kg from the bar.
So whats reasonable ? 3x body weight ? - 250kg ? I dont know where to get that amount of weight and how to suspend it ...so i need a hydraulic jack:

I could buy a cheap 2 ton ( metric) hydraulic jack for 9 Euros- and rig it to put pressure on the center of the bar.
My idea is to put jack on 2x4, leaders through 2x4, bar center ( with some spacer) on jack cylinder- jack it up.
but i cant figure out how to measure the force being exerted by the jack. - any ideas ? CHEAP. thought of using bathroom scale but they top out at 180kg capacity..
Will also need protection to do it- dont want to get speared by a CF bar...

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Re: How to build a bar? Just the rod/pole item ~60cm. Anyone done it?

Postby TomW » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:04 pm

I was thinking about this. purely emperical.
Lets say the kite has 60kg pulling force in normal riding with some speed. during a jump it has more pull, say 120kg pull- I know , I know this is all wrong, but dont know any physics.

so lets say im loaded to do a jump, 120kg on center lines. CL accidentally releases and snaps up to bar that i am holding. My simplistic thinking that is like 120 kg on the center of the bar. Its hitting it sharply, but the bar is probably released from your grip and moving in relation to the hit- so the " bar ends " are not fixed.

With this thinking- if i can stand on the bar and bounce a bit- it should be strong enough...

Thoughts ?


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