Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
Jelle_vw
Rare Poster
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Zandmotor (Netherlands)
Favorite Beaches: Slufter (Netherlands)
Style: Freeride / Oldskool
Gear: Ozone & Shinn
Brand Affiliation: None

LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:02 pm

The LE bladder of my 7m Catalyst from 2015 is leaky and when I removed it from the LE I found out that the end is hold in place by a elastic bladder retainer on the inside of the tip.
In the search for the leak, it appeared to be in the place where the bladder goes through the retainer.
This is at both sides / tips, so I do not think it is a coincidence.
I suspect that the retainer rubs or pulls the material apart causing leakage.
I've removed the bladder very carefully, so I do not think I've damaged it.

Has anyone seen this before, experienced the same?
I'm now in doubt if I should use the retainer with the new bladder.

Photos for clarification.
1st and 2nd: damage / leaky bladder
3rd: Inside LE tip and elastic bladder retainer
4th: outside LE tip
Attachments
20170801_194701.jpg
20170801_194701.jpg (18.03 KiB) Viewed 955 times
20170801_194734.jpg
20170801_194734.jpg (30.29 KiB) Viewed 955 times
20170801_195308.jpg
20170801_195308.jpg (50 KiB) Viewed 955 times
20170801_195337.jpg
20170801_195337.jpg (67.11 KiB) Viewed 955 times
Last edited by Jelle_vw on Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Kiting since: 1970
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Catatlyst 2015)

Postby downunder » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:41 am

I was wondering about that when pulled the bladder out a few days ago on v7 Edge. Did struggle to pull it out tho.

To be fair, have no idea why this retainer is there in the first place. Looks like a very poor design to me. I'll double check all my kites.

Thanks for reporting. Ozone?

PS, the title is not only for Catalyst. C4, Enduro, Edges also so would change it to OZONE asap to get the attention. Potentially, this is a BIG issue.

User avatar
Jelle_vw
Rare Poster
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Zandmotor (Netherlands)
Favorite Beaches: Slufter (Netherlands)
Style: Freeride / Oldskool
Gear: Ozone & Shinn
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:36 am

Good point. I changed the title.

I am very curious now if there are more with this issue, if it's just me or if there is another explanation.

User avatar
Jelle_vw
Rare Poster
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Zandmotor (Netherlands)
Favorite Beaches: Slufter (Netherlands)
Style: Freeride / Oldskool
Gear: Ozone & Shinn
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:43 pm

I was thinking maybe the rope that I used to later on pull through the new bladder made the damage.
I tested it, applied sufficient force but it made no damage.
Will contact Ozone now also and hope the can provide a proper answer.

Just found out I can only buy a complete full bladder set, 100 euro.
So I don't want this to be a returning thing.
Attachments
20170802_180031.jpg
20170802_180031.jpg (28.23 KiB) Viewed 791 times

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Kiting since: 1970
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby downunder » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:10 am

Heya,

I can confirm that Edge v7 11m has the same issue with a bladder. Now need to check the rest of my quiver, but would be the same or worse.
IMG_0207.JPG
IMG_0207.JPG (88.38 KiB) Viewed 662 times
The bladder is put through a very tight retainer which folds the bladder completely as seen on a pics.

As seen, the bladder has some extra length to accommodate folding which keeps it in place. Yes, all this on the left is wasted material. All of it.

This is easy fix by Ozone.

Ozone just needs to seal the bladder, as most manufacturers do, creating a bit of excess. Than this excess can be used through the retainer. I would rather seal it now with a sealing machine than leave it like this.

Thoughts?

User avatar
Jelle_vw
Rare Poster
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Zandmotor (Netherlands)
Favorite Beaches: Slufter (Netherlands)
Style: Freeride / Oldskool
Gear: Ozone & Shinn
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:49 am

Thnx for your feedback.
Does yours have this roundish stretches too?
On the left side of my picture.
That's where I have some pin holes in it.

I will not use the retainer when I put the bladder back.
Instead I will follow a tip that I got on a Dutch forum.
Fold the ends inward and then install it.
Then when you blow it up it expands into the tip.
Attachments
topic,53881.0.html.png

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Kiting since: 1970
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby downunder » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:54 am

Hmm,

did that as above a couple of days ago, and went yesterday for a quick sesh. God, spent more time on fixing the bladder which somehow slipped down the LE than actually kited :(

So, this is a problem. If bladder is not secured (as it should), it might move down the LE when deflated. When inflated again, it can fold anywhere, preventing the LE to properly inflate.

Back to drawing board. No good.

User avatar
Jelle_vw
Rare Poster
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Zandmotor (Netherlands)
Favorite Beaches: Slufter (Netherlands)
Style: Freeride / Oldskool
Gear: Ozone & Shinn
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:51 am

Thnx for you feedback.
I did as above with my 10m Cat and had no problem but will double check next session (today).
Would not expect this as I know on my old 2011 versions and before that my Best Kahoona's the bladder was also loose in the LE.

User avatar
Gigi;)
Frequent Poster
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:23 pm
Kiting since: 0
Location: drtuba.eu, kite-stuff.org, eXtremist.si, kajtar.si
Contact:

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Gigi;) » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:59 am

Hi,

the bungee webbing is there for a reason - because of a design of the end strut there is no locking mechanism to hold the bladder in place, that's why it has to go thru that tiny bungee hole. Some brands use this solution but we never see any problems with it.

Not using that bungee locker is not a good idea unless you change the mechanism too, as bladder will get loose eventually and break.

As far as I remember there were no loose wingtip end kites on the market, even the oldies ones like Wipika had locking.

The important thing is to push excess bladder material back into the wingtip and push back thru the locking mechanism only a small portion of the bladder (say 10cm), otherwise you may lock the bladder too tight and it may stretch and break otherwise. Also make sure that bladder is positioned correctly before locking it!

:idea: :bye:

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Kiting since: 1970
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby downunder » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:16 am

Hi Gigi,

the problem is not a 'bungee webbing' or retainer. We know that this is there for a reason.

The problem is a bladder. You know well that the bladder end on almost all brands is sealed well before it ends and that sealed excess is used in securing the bladder in place. Sealed excess can't be pumped, so it can't be put on pressure resulting in tear or thinning (stretching), the bladder like this retainer does!!!

I can take a micrometer and show that bladder is thinner where the retainer is, due to tear. Or do this, put a watch on your hand and tighten it, how does it feel after a few hours? ;) Than repeat the next day...Over some time your skin would be thinner, damaged by a watch strap.

If Ozone seals the bladder at the ends for about 10-20cm (as you say) and that excess is used around the 'bungee webbing', than it would be heaps better. There is absolutely no point in having a bladder put on pressure after the retainer. The retainer keeps the bladder in place when NOT pumped. Not the opposite.

And because of that, sand and salt inside the bladder can make a pin hole on exactly that place on a pic's, as OP reported.

Not a brainer, really.

Respect
PS

Yeah, my 1000 post :)


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Huib and 20 guests

cron