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Freeride, strapless foil advice

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tomi3000
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Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby tomi3000 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:01 pm

I am facing a dilemma of which foil to get to progress in my riding. I learned on a low aspect foil and now want something faster and more fun. I like free riding in general and want to be riding strapless all the time. I have no interest in racing, jumping or freestyle tricks. My style is cruising in 1m high irregular waves but I would like to add more S turns and speed. My home spot does not have any clean waves or nice swell and the winds are between 10-20 knots 90% of the time on windy days.

I narrowed my options to the following foils:

1. Shinn F foil - I have been always very satisfied with the quality of their products and level of support they provide. All my Shinn boards I have had I have been always very happy with and have a great trust in Mark's ability to deliver fantastic products.

2. Zeeko White Green - New iteration of well known and tested white and blue model. Seems like a very good choice for an intermediate foiler and you can't go wrong with it.

3. Zeeko Spitfire - Now, I am really tempted by this canard design foil as it looks like with the XLW wings it might be what I am looking for.

For boards, I like the Shinn Jackson or Slingshot Dwarfcraft but this topic is mainly about foils for strapless freeriding.

tswierkocki
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Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby tswierkocki » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:41 pm

I have been riding the Zeeko White and Black + Carver wing for the last year. I'm extremely happy with this foil. I'm 100% strapless and mainly just want to carve nice turns. I go back a forth between the Black and Carver wings but slowly settling on the Black wing for flat water days and the Carver for wave or underpowered days.

For strapless riding I'm really enjoying the Nobile Skim Foil board. Nice and compact but not too small. Nice width under the front foot and concave deck which I like. The only negative is that the board is a bit on the heavy side.

Looking for more surf style carving off the back foot I just bought the Spitfire with both wing sets. I'm hoping to get my first session on the Spitfire with XLW wings today.

slowboat
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Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby slowboat » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:02 pm

tomi3000 wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:01 pm
I am facing a dilemma of which foil to get to progress in my riding. I learned on a low aspect foil and now want something faster and more fun. I like free riding in general and want to be riding strapless all the time. I have no interest in racing, jumping or freestyle tricks. My style is cruising in 1m high irregular waves but I would like to add more S turns and speed. My home spot does not have any clean waves or nice swell and the winds are between 10-20 knots 90% of the time on windy days.

I narrowed my options to the following foils:

1. Shinn F foil - I have been always very satisfied with the quality of their products and level of support they provide. All my Shinn boards I have had I have been always very happy with and have a great trust in Mark's ability to deliver fantastic products.

2. Zeeko White Green - New iteration of well known and tested white and blue model. Seems like a very good choice for an intermediate foiler and you can't go wrong with it.

3. Zeeko Spitfire - Now, I am really tempted by this canard design foil as it looks like with the XLW wings it might be what I am looking for.

For boards, I like the Shinn Jackson or Slingshot Dwarfcraft but this topic is mainly about foils for strapless freeriding.
Your question is one which I am sure many of us learning to foil have and I will be very interested in the responses you get.

TomW
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Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby TomW » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:45 pm

Take a look at the Moses line up. I have a Fluente, with 548 /550 front and 330/ 325 rears. Using 548/325 now,. Learned on this set up and in learning transitions phase.
You could keep your low aspect foil and get a vorace sport, or you can get the 550 and 325 wings and see if you want to go faster.

My set up does 30Km/hr without pushing it. I was doing 32km hr relaxed in 10-12 knots yesterday on my Mono 12 kite. I'm not seeing me going beyond the 550 wing, even next year.

It's pretty light carbon, nicely made. Not that expensive compared to other carbon foils.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:02 pm

tomi3000 wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:01 pm
I am facing a dilemma of which foil to get to progress in my riding. I learned on a low aspect foil and now want something faster and more fun. I like free riding in general and want to be riding strapless all the time. I have no interest in racing, jumping or freestyle tricks. My style is cruising in 1m high irregular waves but I would like to add more S turns and speed. My home spot does not have any clean waves or nice swell and the winds are between 10-20 knots 90% of the time on windy days.

I narrowed my options to the following foils:

1. Shinn F foil - I have been always very satisfied with the quality of their products and level of support they provide. All my Shinn boards I have had I have been always very happy with and have a great trust in Mark's ability to deliver fantastic products.

2. Zeeko White Green - New iteration of well known and tested white and blue model. Seems like a very good choice for an intermediate foiler and you can't go wrong with it.

3. Zeeko Spitfire - Now, I am really tempted by this canard design foil as it looks like with the XLW wings it might be what I am looking for.

For boards, I like the Shinn Jackson or Slingshot Dwarfcraft but this topic is mainly about foils for strapless freeriding.

You cant go wrong with any of these 3 I think, and I would choose the one which offer the largest collection of different wings (which would be #2 right ? Or do 1 and 2 have interchangeable wings ?), as when you progress you might want to have different wings for different conditions, or you might change your liking when you ride more :naughty:

Only issue is the masts are only 90 cm as far as I know, which can be tricky strapless in that much wind and huge chop you got ?

8) PF

juandesooka
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Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby juandesooka » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:12 pm

I have heard nothing but good things about the zeeko's. I almost bought a Black/White, but then a Stringy (Jim Stringfellow) from Oregon came up ... and I figured if I want to ride like Greg D/BRM Cloud guy, having the same wings at least gives me a step in the right direction. I am very happy with them, though I don't have a lot to compare against.

I haven't ridden a spitfire, but made a copy of the wings, scaled up a bit to try and get better lower end. I found the rear foot pressure had pros and cons. Turns really fast! Weird to have the emphasis on back foot rather than front. But I didn't like how it required going faster to stay up on foil, was twitchy, with tendency to drop at lower speeds. It's possibly mine isn't balanced right, but it is more or less similar to reports I've read online. Today there was a post in spitfire thread about how great the new larger XLW wings went ... so it may well be that these have answered the issues. Anyways, would be ideal if you can find one to borrow or demo first, to see if you like how it rides, as it isn't just a slight modification, it's a major difference. But on the other hand, will be easy to re-sell if you don't like it, they are in hot demand.

tomi3000
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Shinn Monk (such a good board)
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Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby tomi3000 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:33 am

Curiosity won and I got myself a and toy: Zeeke Spitfire paired with Dwarfcraft 54 board.

I have had two sessions already. I am still a noob as I only started foiling earlier this year so my thoughts could be the same as for any beginner. Before Spitfire, I had old MHL Lift 2013 foil with low aspects wings and a low volume board and this is what I will be comparing it to as I have not had a chance to ride other foils.

For my first session, I installed XLW wings and followed an advice to move the foil to the front on the bottom track to help with balancing as Spitfire requires more equal foot pressure than a traditional foil. In water first I noticed how different Dwarfcraft behaved in comparison to my low volume board. Because I wanted to learn strapless I had it with two front Slingshot Foot Hooks and they don't give you a proper anchorage and a leverage against your foot but only little support. To water start, you need to tilt board with your back hand and coordinate precisely water start with kite movement while Spitfire sinks in water quite fast. I had some strapless experience from riding skimboard and directional so it was not a completely new territory for me but it requires more focus than water starts on a low volume board with straps. Let me just say here that I think Slingshot Foot Hooks are amazing! I can't believe that I was using foot straps for learning for all that time. With hooks, I feel so much more confident to try new things and to push my limits knowing that I will always be able to bail out from a crash. This can be only appreciated from having an experience when your foil folds like a jackknife, you get impaled on wings and your foot is still stuck on the board. Brilliant! As for the Dwarfcraft I like it - it has some volume to help with water starts, it is not too hard to tilt with one hand, the nose could be wider but if before nose diving you bear off little bit downwind it works just fine with touch downs. I can feel its weight when carrying on the beach, especially with installed an alu foil, as the whole setup is not the lightest but on the water, it feels fine so this is a non-issue for me as it is a trade off of affordability and durability I can live with.

During my first sesh I was surprised when instead of foiling I entered mechanical bull phase and I could not figure out why. Then I realised that I needed to forget what it was like on my low aspect foil as I could take off with almost walking speed. Spitfire even with XLW wings needs more speed and if you try to rush it will not work. So the next day I moved the foil to the rear position on the bottom track and I stayed focus on having front foot pressure during water start and initial phase. This time Spitfire went beautifully and I could not believe how natural and balanced it felt. I tried going fast and slow, linking small S turns and I am STOKED! I want more time on the water with it and also want to try the small wings to go even faster but for now, I can only say this is exactly what I wanted when I was looking for something faster and more fun than my previous foil.

Another good thing from a beginner point of view is how forgiving Spitfire is when front wing breaches of water surface. Sure you lose some traction and it drops you but you can still try to save it knowing that foot hooks will not catch your foot.

slowboat
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Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby slowboat » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:02 pm

tomi3000 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:33 am
Curiosity won and I got myself a and toy: Zeeke Spitfire paired with Dwarfcraft 54 board.

I have had two sessions already. I am still a noob as I only started foiling earlier this year so my thoughts could be the same as for any beginner. Before Spitfire, I had old MHL Lift 2013 foil with low aspects wings and a low volume board and this is what I will be comparing it to as I have not had a chance to ride other foils.

For my first session, I installed XLW wings and followed an advice to move the foil to the front on the bottom track to help with balancing as Spitfire requires more equal foot pressure than a traditional foil. In water first I noticed how different Dwarfcraft behaved in comparison to my low volume board. Because I wanted to learn strapless I had it with two front Slingshot Foot Hooks and they don't give you a proper anchorage and a leverage against your foot but only little support. To water start, you need to tilt board with your back hand and coordinate precisely water start with kite movement while Spitfire sinks in water quite fast. I had some strapless experience from riding skimboard and directional so it was not a completely new territory for me but it requires more focus than water starts on a low volume board with straps. Let me just say here that I think Slingshot Foot Hooks are amazing! I can't believe that I was using foot straps for learning for all that time. With hooks, I feel so much more confident to try new things and to push my limits knowing that I will always be able to bail out from a crash. This can be only appreciated from having an experience when your foil folds like a jackknife, you get impaled on wings and your foot is still stuck on the board. Brilliant! As for the Dwarfcraft I like it - it has some volume to help with water starts, it is not too hard to tilt with one hand, the nose could be wider but if before nose diving you bear off little bit downwind it works just fine with touch downs. I can feel its weight when carrying on the beach, especially with installed an alu foil, as the whole setup is not the lightest but on the water, it feels fine so this is a non-issue for me as it is a trade off of affordability and durability I can live with.

During my first sesh I was surprised when instead of foiling I entered mechanical bull phase and I could not figure out why. Then I realised that I needed to forget what it was like on my low aspect foil as I could take off with almost walking speed. Spitfire even with XLW wings needs more speed and if you try to rush it will not work. So the next day I moved the foil to the rear position on the bottom track and I stayed focus on having front foot pressure during water start and initial phase. This time Spitfire went beautifully and I could not believe how natural and balanced it felt. I tried going fast and slow, linking small S turns and I am STOKED! I want more time on the water with it and also want to try the small wings to go even faster but for now, I can only say this is exactly what I wanted when I was looking for something faster and more fun than my previous foil.

Another good thing from a beginner point of view is how forgiving Spitfire is when front wing breaches of water surface. Sure you lose some traction and it drops you but you can still try to save it knowing that foot hooks will not catch your foot.
Sounds like you made a good choice for yourself. I am tempted by the Spitfire/XLW when I am ready to move past my beginner foil.

clint2070
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Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby clint2070 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:32 am

tomi3000 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:33 am
Curiosity won and I got myself a and toy: Zeeke Spitfire paired with Dwarfcraft 54 board.

I have had two sessions already. I am still a noob as I only started foiling earlier this year so my thoughts could be the same as for any beginner. Before Spitfire, I had old MHL Lift 2013 foil with low aspects wings and a low volume board and this is what I will be comparing it to as I have not had a chance to ride other foils.

For my first session, I installed XLW wings and followed an advice to move the foil to the front on the bottom track to help with balancing as Spitfire requires more equal foot pressure than a traditional foil. In water first I noticed how different Dwarfcraft behaved in comparison to my low volume board. Because I wanted to learn strapless I had it with two front Slingshot Foot Hooks and they don't give you a proper anchorage and a leverage against your foot but only little support. To water start, you need to tilt board with your back hand and coordinate precisely water start with kite movement while Spitfire sinks in water quite fast. I had some strapless experience from riding skimboard and directional so it was not a completely new territory for me but it requires more focus than water starts on a low volume board with straps. Let me just say here that I think Slingshot Foot Hooks are amazing! I can't believe that I was using foot straps for learning for all that time. With hooks, I feel so much more confident to try new things and to push my limits knowing that I will always be able to bail out from a crash. This can be only appreciated from having an experience when your foil folds like a jackknife, you get impaled on wings and your foot is still stuck on the board. Brilliant! As for the Dwarfcraft I like it - it has some volume to help with water starts, it is not too hard to tilt with one hand, the nose could be wider but if before nose diving you bear off little bit downwind it works just fine with touch downs. I can feel its weight when carrying on the beach, especially with installed an alu foil, as the whole setup is not the lightest but on the water, it feels fine so this is a non-issue for me as it is a trade off of affordability and durability I can live with.

During my first sesh I was surprised when instead of foiling I entered mechanical bull phase and I could not figure out why. Then I realised that I needed to forget what it was like on my low aspect foil as I could take off with almost walking speed. Spitfire even with XLW wings needs more speed and if you try to rush it will not work. So the next day I moved the foil to the rear position on the bottom track and I stayed focus on having front foot pressure during water start and initial phase. This time Spitfire went beautifully and I could not believe how natural and balanced it felt. I tried going fast and slow, linking small S turns and I am STOKED! I want more time on the water with it and also want to try the small wings to go even faster but for now, I can only say this is exactly what I wanted when I was looking for something faster and more fun than my previous foil.

Another good thing from a beginner point of view is how forgiving Spitfire is when front wing breaches of water surface. Sure you lose some traction and it drops you but you can still try to save it knowing that foot hooks will not catch your foot.
Thats Funny, I did the exact same thing ! Got my spitfire w wlx wings and the large dwarf craft. Ive only ridden it once with straps and today my 2 hooks came in the mail so i put them on. where do you have your foil set ? mine is barely forward of 1. do my hooks look like your set up ? didn't know wether to ditch the rear strap and go one hook in front and one in back or the way I have it set up in the pics. Would be good to know your opinion ! The only other foil Ive had is the Naish hover 160. Super easy to learn on but I didn't like the board. Kinda wish I didn't sell it and put like a skim board on it and shorter mast for surf foiling.I first tried to ride my spitfire strapless but theres so much volume in the dwarf craft and it was blowing like 9mph. I couldn't pull it off. I also want to get the large Naish Thrust Surf for the waves and because I can also put it on my sup. I actually think if I learned on the spitfire it would have been easier than the standard foil.
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tomi3000
Rare Poster
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:51 pm
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Bournemouth
Style: FR strapless* (with foot hooks for now)
Gear: Gong Strutless
Zeeko Spitfire
Shinn Monk (such a good board)
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby tomi3000 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:40 pm

clint2070 wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:32 am
tomi3000 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:33 am
Curiosity won and I got myself a and toy: Zeeke Spitfire paired with Dwarfcraft 54 board.

I have had two sessions already. I am still a noob as I only started foiling earlier this year so my thoughts could be the same as for any beginner. Before Spitfire, I had old MHL Lift 2013 foil with low aspects wings and a low volume board and this is what I will be comparing it to as I have not had a chance to ride other foils.

For my first session, I installed XLW wings and followed an advice to move the foil to the front on the bottom track to help with balancing as Spitfire requires more equal foot pressure than a traditional foil. In water first I noticed how different Dwarfcraft behaved in comparison to my low volume board. Because I wanted to learn strapless I had it with two front Slingshot Foot Hooks and they don't give you a proper anchorage and a leverage against your foot but only little support. To water start, you need to tilt board with your back hand and coordinate precisely water start with kite movement while Spitfire sinks in water quite fast. I had some strapless experience from riding skimboard and directional so it was not a completely new territory for me but it requires more focus than water starts on a low volume board with straps. Let me just say here that I think Slingshot Foot Hooks are amazing! I can't believe that I was using foot straps for learning for all that time. With hooks, I feel so much more confident to try new things and to push my limits knowing that I will always be able to bail out from a crash. This can be only appreciated from having an experience when your foil folds like a jackknife, you get impaled on wings and your foot is still stuck on the board. Brilliant! As for the Dwarfcraft I like it - it has some volume to help with water starts, it is not too hard to tilt with one hand, the nose could be wider but if before nose diving you bear off little bit downwind it works just fine with touch downs. I can feel its weight when carrying on the beach, especially with installed an alu foil, as the whole setup is not the lightest but on the water, it feels fine so this is a non-issue for me as it is a trade off of affordability and durability I can live with.

During my first sesh I was surprised when instead of foiling I entered mechanical bull phase and I could not figure out why. Then I realised that I needed to forget what it was like on my low aspect foil as I could take off with almost walking speed. Spitfire even with XLW wings needs more speed and if you try to rush it will not work. So the next day I moved the foil to the rear position on the bottom track and I stayed focus on having front foot pressure during water start and initial phase. This time Spitfire went beautifully and I could not believe how natural and balanced it felt. I tried going fast and slow, linking small S turns and I am STOKED! I want more time on the water with it and also want to try the small wings to go even faster but for now, I can only say this is exactly what I wanted when I was looking for something faster and more fun than my previous foil.

Another good thing from a beginner point of view is how forgiving Spitfire is when front wing breaches of water surface. Sure you lose some traction and it drops you but you can still try to save it knowing that foot hooks will not catch your foot.
Thats Funny, I did the exact same thing ! Got my spitfire w wlx wings and the large dwarf craft. Ive only ridden it once with straps and today my 2 hooks came in the mail so i put them on. where do you have your foil set ? mine is barely forward of 1. do my hooks look like your set up ? didn't know wether to ditch the rear strap and go one hook in front and one in back or the way I have it set up in the pics. Would be good to know your opinion ! The only other foil Ive had is the Naish hover 160. Super easy to learn on but I didn't like the board. Kinda wish I didn't sell it and put like a skim board on it and shorter mast for surf foiling.I first tried to ride my spitfire strapless but theres so much volume in the dwarf craft and it was blowing like 9mph. I couldn't pull it off. I also want to get the large Naish Thrust Surf for the waves and because I can also put it on my sup. I actually think if I learned on the spitfire it would have been easier than the standard foil.IMG_0052.JPGIMG_0052.JPG
My first session I had was with a foil all the way to the front but for the second session, I moved it all the way to the back. Now, I have it at 4 and I will continue testing it and if I need more reactiveness I will be moving it more to the front. I only have 2 front foot hooks attached to the most forward position without any strap or hook for the rear foot. The reason for that is I move my feet a bit when riding and I like to see the difference it makes changing feet placement for how the foil behaves. I think the front hooks will help me to better feel the board when learning foot changes but my goal is strapless.

I also think that Spitfire with XLW wings could be used by a complete foil beginner to learn on but as looking back at my own progress I would say that learning on a big, stable board with some volume and nose rocker is more important in early stages then a hydrofoil choice.


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