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line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

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FrederikS
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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby FrederikS » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:01 pm

Wouldn't say there are any rules, depends on: kite, kiter, foil, and conditions. Somewhere around 20 m is a good place to start and then add/subtract when you feel like playing around with the setup.

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cglazier
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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby cglazier » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:08 pm

I use 20m lines on all my kites. Once you get used to a line length don't change because it upsets your timing and control.
;-)

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Peter_Frank
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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:17 pm

abel wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:31 pm
OK, thanks,
My understanding from all above is : No extensions for winds above 15 knots, and if the wind is stronger, even use shorter lines.

Summarizing:
<10 knots: 27-30 m (my standard setup in my local spot) :(
10-15 knots: 24-27 m
>15 knots <24m

Did I get it right for the med/stronger winds?

IMO no, one can not say it like that, as it depends on the kite type but mostly personal preferences and what you DO out there.

I think the reason is, on a hydrofoil you dont turn like on a waveboard where you often follow the kite around in carves and waves, and where shorter lines for smaller kites are sometimes used either in order to have faster redirection, or to avoid getting overpowered DTL - and other times shorter lines are not used/preferred when on waveboards.

In theory and real life too, on hydrofoils:
If some likes short lines on bigger kites, because the kite flies faster from one side to the other, where it somehow feels good, like the big kites gets faster - then when you go up in wind and down in kitesize, the kites fly A LOT faster from one side to the other, so to have the same feel and not too short a powerstroke, you would use a bit longer lines on the smaller kites than the big ones, instead of the opposite, to get a similiar feel and turn.

As said, you have to find out yourself - as you can see now that nobody does it the same way, some use short lines on LEI all the way up to underpowered where you need longer lines.
Others use medium lines (a tad longer than your "normal" lines) for everything, except for the low powered LEI.
Some use normal lines for really small kites, and longer for big kites and lower wind.
Finally it seems some also use long lines for everything.

But dont forget, as FrederikS writes: You have to spend time on different lengths, if you just "try it" you wont know how it will work and if you will like it, when used to it.
This goes for both shorter as well as longer lines, you have to spent a lot of time to get adapted.
I actually find myself changing "liking" when I go from one length to another, after a while, eventhough it is never shorter than 26 m for me...

Others ride sub 20 m lines :D

Yes, agree with cglazier, changing will upset your timing and control hugely - no matter which length it is :wink:

8) PF

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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby davesails7 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:50 pm

Kykeon wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:24 am
Racers use the shorter lines they can for performance but that requires perfect timing in tacks, jibes and
I find the opposite. You don't have to get the timing right on short lines because you can put the kite where you need it much quicker. As you said, the longer your lines are, the longer it takes to move from one position to another in the window. Maybe this is more relevant for big slow turning foil kites, but I definitely foil through transitions much more with shorter lines.

The short lines make a huge difference in how much power you can handle. The kite doesn't surge as much in the gusts and you can get it to where you need it in the window much faster.

My preference:
I ride 15m lines for my 9,11, and 15m kites now. Could definitely go shorter now for the 9m and 11m kites.
17m or 20m lines with my 18m kite.

Wind ranges:
18m on 20m lines: <10 kts
18m on 17m lines: 9-13 kts
15m on 15m lines: 11-16 kts
11m on 15m lines: 15-22 kts
9m on 15m lines: 18-30 kts

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Starsky
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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby Starsky » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:20 pm

15m lines plus 3-5m bridle?

How long are bridles on race kites?

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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby windmlv » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:26 pm

20m lines for everything for me. Seems to work fine for my foil kites. Bridal length is extra but have never measured them.

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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby neptune262 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:42 am

All personal preference IMHO - so experiment yourself about what feels right for you. When you change, just be prepared that you might get some timings wrong and crash.

My personal preference at the moment is my 25m line set for foiling. I tried my 21m set on a windier day than normal, but couldn't get on with it, so I switched back . 25m line set is more relaxed for me, as things happen slower (i.e. changes in kite power) - suits my low speed fun foiling style. This is all with LEI kite

Note: i only have the two line sets presently, so haven't experimented more than this.
I use the same 25m line set for TT riding in normal conditions. I switch to my 21m line set in high powered conditions on TT.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:54 am

Personal preferences indeed :D


The reasoning for my liking of 25-27 m lines all the way down in kitesizes, and NOT using shorter lines with smaller kites:

Small kites (these are in my world below 6 m2 meaning wind from 15 knots and up) can be very on/off on a stupidly short depowerstroke, which dont feel good.
This evens out when using longer lines is my experience, as you use the window more efficient with a longer sweep, so feels a lot smoother now.

When we ride waves, or carve hard back and fourth - well, shorter lines wont speed this up, as with longer lines and small kites, you just pivotturn the kite on top while zig-zagging downwind - the same way we do on waveboards with small kites and lots of wind.
So you get a bigger windrange, a smoother ride, and carves/jibes are way better because the small kites that speeds from one side to the other much faster than bigger kites, has more time doing this now so feels like used to, especially if the wind is a bit down out there you also dont lack power in jibes.

If the wind picks up, you can fly the kite a tad higher all the way around your jibe/carve thus it is not slower like some suggest it would be.

Why not use even longer lines then ?

Because it starts to feel "saggy" eventually - eventhough to my surprise in lighter wind, when I have ridden a 12 m2 on 30 m lines for a while on a given lighter day, it feels natural and fast also if wind picks up, and very wrong when going down to 26 m again.
At first - as then you get used to it.

"Getting used to" is what it is all about here, where timing is not in our heads but our bodies.

Above is why I prefer lines from 25 to max 32 m, and never shorter, and in reality use 26 m (plus std bridles) for all sizes when wind, and longer only for the big ones when on the slow side :rollgrin:

Some use their "normal" bar/lines from other boards out of convenience I know, others use shorter lines because they prefer these for their riding style.

I can never use the same kitesizes anyways, for waveboards and hydrofoils, way too much difference even if the wind changes a bit, so going from one board to the other makes no sense.
Got (at least but you know the principle) 3 bars with lines, 21 m for waveboards, 26 m for hydrofoil, 30-31 m for lightwind big kites hydrofoil. Never change bar length down when more wind.

"Using" extensions is a no no for me, riding so much that I dont want the hassle changing these, lazy, I know, but very convenient and easy :naughty:


Would just try to put in words, why I like these linelengths - dont know if it can help (or just confuse) some :wink:

8) PF

neilhapgood
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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby neilhapgood » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:53 pm

Am I right in thinking that on longer lines you have more chance of keeping the kite in the air?

I still drop into the water to turn around so am vulnerable to the kite dropping at this point, do longer lines help?

thanks

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edt
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Re: line length for Hfoiling in >15 knots

Postby edt » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:31 pm

neilhapgood wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:53 pm
Am I right in thinking that on longer lines you have more chance of keeping the kite in the air?

I still drop into the water to turn around so am vulnerable to the kite dropping at this point, do longer lines help?

thanks
Yeah for sure you have more space in the air before the kite touches the water so it helps with longe rlines, but the original post was asking about more than 15 knots so I don't think there's any problem riding short lines when it's that windy. Above 15 knots I switch to 20 meter lines. Below 10 knots I go to 30 meter lines. I have several control bars set up with different line len gths so when I want to switch line lengths it's easy for me just swap in a new control bar.


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