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Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

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bigtone667
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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby bigtone667 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:14 am

rynhardt wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:41 am
bigtone667 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:49 pm
Fly the kite at 12 oclock and pull the safety. The kite will generally land direct downwind from you with little possibility of damage. Very easy to walk the safety line without damaging your hands.

I don't understand the reluctance to use the safety on a kite.
^^^ this depends very much on your kite, your release mechanism, your launch/land area.

With strutless kites, preferred method is to keep it at the edge of the window and walk both front lines up to the kite.
With release to two front lines (not single front or 5th), same deal.
Tiny landing zone? Park the kite where it needs to be, and once again walk the two front lines up to the kite.
I do the top line pull down, bottom line pull up, safety from 12, safety from 3, reverse launch, walking the front lines from 3, walking the front lines from 12 etc etc..... big wind with no one around, i just pull the safety.

If it's a tiny landing zone, i will make it up as required.... stand 20m out in the water and release the safety, walk the front lines if possible.

People keep introducing me to different methods and I give them a crack.

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby matth » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:22 pm

RedSky wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 am
IWB2 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:13 am
The best self land/self rescue system I ever used was the Cabrinha IDS system 2009-2013 (when using the Switchblade). This system was amaysing as one could hit the QR in any conditions and the kite would be out cold with the leading edge down and the kite facing you). Because the kite would face you LE down the actual pull was very low when compared to flagging a kite on a single front line. Of the many many times the IDS self land was used it always worked perfectly. This system is no longer used by Cabrinha unfortunately. The video below shows how the kite reacted when releasing the QR. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia-CmjKvUAI[/youtube]
:thumb: Great kites.
The IDS was good but had a serious flaw. The kite would not always roll onto its back like it was supposed to. If the kite was flagged in strong wind and would not roll onto its back it still had a lot of pull. The trick was to swim towards kite to release tension or pull in center lines then release, both would usually get the roll over bridal to kick in. In the end it just wasn't as effective as a 1 line flag or 5th.

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby ThickAir » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:27 pm

kjorn wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:51 am
I hate self landing in high wind. 5th line is the best method I've used so far. But even this will leave the kite floating upside down in the air while I try to climb up the fifth line. Line cutting into my soft, girly hands.
Best method I've found when hopelessly overpowered and no one around, nothing to attach chicken loop to is this... Ditch the kite to safety release and if it's floating upside down on 5th line, just take your harness off (with safety still attached) and bury the harness in the sand. You can then easily walk up the 5th line to the airborne kite and get it on the ground without tearing up your hands.

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby roninXpl » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Topic is getting pretty interesting :)

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby jeromeL » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:23 pm

Teabageppo wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:06 am
PullStrings wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:44 pm
kjorn wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:51 am
Let me anticipate the pedants ... blah blah sand bag blah stake in the ground blah. Sometimes I get out of the sea a long way from where I got in. I may get out quickly to avoid a squall and want to land my kite.
YES a real self landing...all by yourself...and nothing else

Was in a squall situation recently on 10 Rebel...before the squall hit was a fun 1 1/2 hour sesh side-on at 20-25 knots...but during the 35-40+ knots squall it was stinging rain "dead onshore wind"
It was high tide with small sandy beach and house 50 meters straight downwind
I was out with a friend ...he had a 9 Fuse
We both opted to go further out to sea and ride the squall that lasted 10 long minutes
We positioned both our kites at edge of the window on their wingtips touching the water where the wind speed was a bit less in between the waves
Fully depowered...bar out..sitting still in the water..strapped to our surfboards...the kites were flapping like mad..our hands ready to hit the QR if shit would hit the fan at 50+ knots

We would rather stay on the water in certain temporary very high wind directions...more high impact accidents happen coming on land ...in a hurry trying to put the kite down

Self landing in very high wind... i do very similar to what "Sarc" said he does with the 5th line of the Rebel
Exactly he's on it. Get caught by a squall, get the fck further out into the water and do what the guy above says. With hand on the quick release, in case the wind gets so violent the kite starts to lose its shape completely and is uncontrollable. Stay the fck away from shore.

Those of you not on fifth line loaded rebels will need to pull their primary release much sooner of course... :jump:

And yeh, land mine similar to the above. Having only a 10m rebel (one kite quiver) I get out in some insane winds at 80kg.
I have had that happen only once, didn't trust that the flag line would hold in that wind and I was less than 2 miles upwind of JFK..
there was someone on beach but he was too busy laying down on his kite to hold it down and I felt there was only 1 chance to catch kite once I get in and if it gets shallower than chest deep no way I can hold kite.
So prefered to stay way from shore water chest deep and board anchored down trying to hold kite between 9:30 and 11:00. after 2 min wind came down and quickly died.

I have to check out sarc technique because my kite just flies on its back when wind is strong enough on fifth line, i think it's because of C shape maybe with a delta shape kite is more stable. It's not terrible if you hold the line steadily and walk slowly to kite but if wind is too strong i might have to try burying my harness like someone suggested :D

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby RadDrDuke » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:41 pm

You are correct, there is no good solution despite 15+ years of trying.

I kite alone quite often in high winds, I always attempt the upper centerline trick and it works about 50% in high winds >25mph, when it fails I pull the QR and the kite rolls twice to downwind and i walk to it using the flagline. Sketchy because failure is basically a loop on the beach so you have to be ready to quick release FAST!

Whenever I am in a sketchy landing or lots of people etc. I don't hesitate to drop the kite in the water at the edge of the window and intentionally have it drift downwind then pull the QR when it's right downwind of me, then walk to it using the flagline.

I haven't had a tangle in at least 10+ years kiting, all you have to do is walk your bar back out once you've secured your kite, then wind up your lines.

I self-launch all the time too, just pull the upper back line and the kite (4 line) just rotates and launches in place no need for sandbag.
If really sketchy I don't hesitate to drift launch which is easy and safe and somewhat fun actually.

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby slim_charles » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:58 pm

edt wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:19 pm
some kites love a tethered launch and behave well, others (C kites especially) can't be tether launched as they will tumble downwind
Just pull a bit of depower and sit it deeper in the window.

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby Slappysan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:01 pm

I wear gloves when kiting 100% of the time due to my girly hands. Either 3/4 finger gloves or full finger gloves with the tip of the index and thumb cut off. They don't have to be kevlar, any sailing glove will do the trick.

The combo of hands being wet and 5 hour kite sessions gives me blisters without gloves on every bar I've tried so this solves both that problem and climbing kite lines without wrecking my hands.

About 4 years ago I had a case where I popped my CL and the flag line didn't travel through the swivel. It still flagged about 1.5m though so the kite wasn't super powered up but it was now uncontrollable and still pulling me hard through the water. I tried to climb the line but just couldn't do it against the pull from the water. After about 10 minutes of being pulled someone came and rescued me. Since then I always wear gloves.

When it comes to high wind self landing, I usually use the water and just do a self rescue. People asked why are people adverse to doing that? Well:
1) your kite gets wet, and your session is over, so now you'll have to dry it
2) your lines get tangled (not that big of a deal)
3) if you kite where I kite you might end up with 30 lbs of seaweed tangled in to your lines (a pretty big deal)

I still opt for this method though and just deal with the consequences.

I've had a few pull top line self landings go wrong in high winds.

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby IWB2 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:39 pm

matth wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:22 pm
RedSky wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 am
IWB2 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:13 am
The best self land/self rescue system I ever used was the Cabrinha IDS system 2009-2013 (when using the Switchblade). This system was amaysing as one could hit the QR in any conditions and the kite would be out cold with the leading edge down and the kite facing you). Because the kite would face you LE down the actual pull was very low when compared to flagging a kite on a single front line. Of the many many times the IDS self land was used it always worked perfectly. This system is no longer used by Cabrinha unfortunately. The video below shows how the kite reacted when releasing the QR. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia-CmjKvUAI[/youtube]
:thumb: Great kites.
The IDS was good but had a serious flaw. The kite would not always roll onto its back like it was supposed to. If the kite was flagged in strong wind and would not roll onto its back it still had a lot of pull. The trick was to swim towards kite to release tension or pull in center lines then release, both would usually get the roll over bridal to kick in. In the end it just wasn't as effective as a 1 line flag or 5th.
If the IDS had a "serious flaw" i never experienced any problems over the hundreds of selfrescue/land that where done in lessons or in practice in any of the IDS SB models between (09-13). The SB 95%+ of the time went LE down and the kite was out cold. If it went into the U position the pull was far less than any single 4 line flagging system due to the center balanced pull. I had the the SB IDS flagged in very overpowered winds and it always did as it was supposed to do and never any heavy pulling. In my experience with the IDS i never had to swim towards the kite because of too much power...the issue was more that persons were not pushing the bar out to the end of the IDS line to get the kite to roll over. Maybe in super light winds you took a step forward to get the kite to roll which was a non issue.

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Re: Could someone please invent a better way to self land a kite in high wind.

Postby matth » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:57 am

IWB2 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:39 pm
matth wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:22 pm
RedSky wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 am


:thumb: Great kites.
The IDS was good but had a serious flaw. The kite would not always roll onto its back like it was supposed to. If the kite was flagged in strong wind and would not roll onto its back it still had a lot of pull. The trick was to swim towards kite to release tension or pull in center lines then release, both would usually get the roll over bridal to kick in. In the end it just wasn't as effective as a 1 line flag or 5th.
If the IDS had a "serious flaw" i never experienced any problems over the hundreds of selfrescue/land that where done in lessons or in practice in any of the IDS SB models between (09-13). The SB 95%+ of the time went LE down and the kite was out cold. If it went into the U position the pull was far less than any single 4 line flagging system due to the center balanced pull. I had the the SB IDS flagged in very overpowered winds and it always did as it was supposed to do and never any heavy pulling. In my experience with the IDS i never had to swim towards the kite because of too much power...the issue was more that persons were not pushing the bar out to the end of the IDS line to get the kite to roll over. Maybe in super light winds you took a step forward to get the kite to roll which was a non issue.
I disagree it had less pull when it wouldn't roll over than a single line flag. It also required a more complicated bridal to work.
At this point I don't think anyone offers a 2 line flag.


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