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On Shore Wave Kites

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bragnouff
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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby bragnouff » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:03 am

Upwind ability is paramount for onshore wave riding, just to be able to get to catch waves at the back. Upwind pull and quick accelerations. It's unfortunately typically not what you'd want from the kite once you're actually on the wave and riding it downwind. It forces you to move it quite aggressively to keep line tension and to keep the kite in the air (except in strong winds, where everything is easier). Definitely not a park and forget, but with the right technique this will still deliver rewarding pleasure.
So a light kite that doesn't drop out of the sky when lines temporarily go slack. One that doesn't stall and fly backwards when drifting too much, and very good upwind ability are your best bets. Technique will follow.

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby plummet » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:50 pm

bigtone667 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:19 pm
plummet wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:46 am
bigtone667 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:58 am


I agree completely with this assessment. We have a great on-shore wind/wave location and our major issue is keeping line tension in the kite as we travel down the face of the wave and towards the kite. Our choices are to either ride over-powered to have enough power on the wave to keep line tension and control, or to have a good looping, drifting kite.

I fly Clouds, so I can ride a little over-powered, drift and loop. Nothing unusual for me to downloop the kite four or five times on a 200 or 300m ride to maintain line tension and introduce power.
I kinda agree with you and i dont all at the same time. Yes if you are on a wave you are riding it. But the waves you get in onshore conditions are piecemeal crappy waves and due to the onshore wind you are limited to a few shitty turns before having to carve out and stop the kite from slack lining,

You then ride cross shore and cross off and instantly can sustain extended down the line riding many times better than onshore mush. Sure you can ride the mush. But thats what it is mush. When i am ridding mush i dont even consider it wave riding, Nor do i try to wave ride the crud. BUT i have glorious waves i a reasonably consistant basis so i can cherry pick the good conditions and fang around in the not so good. The guys that never get good conditions must do the best they can with there cruddy mushy surf.
We are a little bit lucky with onshore conditions because we have a 500m sandbank in front of the beach that is 45 degrees to direction of the wind and waves. We get some truly awesome long rides. And some long swims when we drop the kite.
That would make it cross on conditions as far as the waves are concerned.

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:25 pm

Apparently we dont agree about what "waveriding" is.... (a lot more than which kites we like to use)

I agree fully with Eduardo, that if dead onshore it is not waveriding, but playing around on the waves - a very different thing, can be fun too, but got nothing to do with the term most think of when saying "riding waves" where you do the full bottom turn trying to get vertical of course, easier and much better the more sideshore it gets :wink:

If wind is just slightly to one side, and not dead onshore, things start to change hugely, and you can sometimes ride for quite long Down The Line, or at least get good cutbacks with the right gear and technique :thumb:

I was referring to these conditions also, as I can not see dead onshore got anything to do with DTL riding, and the kite does not really matter here if not going around, IMO.

So maybe this now quite long thread is because we are, without really knowing, comparing completely different things ?

My intuitive assumption was that the original poster, Matteo V, was asking about which kites to use for riding in very onshore winds, but still riding all the way around for a cutback ?

Where you can NOT use "park and ride" like in side and side-offshore, but need a fast flying and turning kite that can be flown aggressively, and able to give you a good unrestricted course quite hard up onto the waveface after the bottom turn (meaning depower/forward flying is key), IMO and experience.

So I honestly think this thread is not only about personal likings and differences, but a lot more about how we all are talking about very different scenarios :roll:

8) Peter

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby ciscokitesurfer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:10 pm

for onshore wave riding you need a kite that can go upwind if not you are stuck in the same place. Wave riding is better when is side shore but any wind direction is fun. Some wind direction you will have to work VERY hard to get back out.

this video is side shore and it very good for parking the kite. The problem is getting back to the start if your kite is not good at upwind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPRyh25 ... 7&index=12

cheers

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby The Captain » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:39 am

So, for those playing in the waves in onshore winds (Like the Great Lakes), those marketed "Wave" kites might not be the best. Something fast turning and workable, with excellent upwind is more desirable.

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby The Captain » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:45 am


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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby tautologies » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:51 am

I think we're getting too pedantic about this.
One of my spots that I friggin love I ride in mostly onshore conditions....yeah sure sometimes the wind is slightly at an angle and sometimes you find a set that rolls at an angle, but no one can tell me that when you make a drop on an onshore wave and the wave has a 12 foot face..not some mushburger...a clearly defined face in onshore wind...that is not surfing in onshore conditions. Like people have mentioned you need strong wind, and a kite that doesn't drop.
Just remember just because your home spot isn;t like that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. :-)
If your options are Side - Side on - and onshore there is a scale at the angles so give it leeway.

I know exactly what people here mean when they talk about the upwind drive. On big waves, in relative onshore conditions that can be super fun. Once you pick upspeed you can make your turns. I see this as much of technical excercise as light wind riding. Keeping the lines tight, keeping speed on the kite and riding a big wall that just wants to gobble you up....gets my adrenaline going.

I also get what others are saying about it not being onshore, and that a few degrees makes a huge difference. I agree, and those are the degrees you are looking for, but I still call it Onshore because If I called a buddy and he asked me "What's the direction like" and I didn't say onshore, I'd be buying the beers. I mean I guess that is not too bad tho.
:-)

My wave kites the Pivots excels in these conditions.

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby The Captain » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Tautologies is probably right...

But, there are mainly two 'kinds' of waves being ridden in, and they are quite different.
There are the well spaced, smooth ocean waves that are generated miles away, roll in, and are somewhat independent of the local winds.
Then there are storm waves (like you get on the Great lakes), they are messy, stacked up and close together and a mess in between them. They can get big, but are usually 2-3m (6-10ft), and they are driven by predominantly onshore winds.

Which kites that are better for each?

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby Eduardo » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:36 pm

Eduardo wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:44 am
If you are in side shore waves or side off, the kite is parked and drifting downwind. Cabrinha Drifter is a great example of such a kite.

If the wind has some on shore to it, you are forced to move the kite. Quick pivot turning without big pull is a big help. Naish Pivot is a great example.

Direct on shore, you are not really wave riding in my view (as Plummet said - define wave riding!) In these conditions, you are playing in waves. Here, any all around kite is fine, including Naish Pivot.
This comment, which seems to have started some debate, was not meant to suggest that direct on shore is not a real wave, it's not fun, or it's not difficult. It can be all of those things. But more that you cannot generally make surf style moves (similar moves a surfer might make if riding the same wave), off the lip, break out the fins, bottom turn, up the face, etc. due to the wind direction. So it is not in the same category as what kite companies market as a wave kite which is intended for surf style.

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby PD Gorby 67 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:27 pm

Just for clarification - going back to Plummet's description of wave riding on page one, the one thing that he did not mention in his description of Direct Onshore ware riding, is that the waves in this situation are called "close out waves". I know that all of the surfers in the crowd will know this, and know that they suck for wave riding, since there are no DTL peeling sections, and they just crash all at once when they break.
So, you can ride these before they break, but you can't surf them when they break because you just get swallowed by the wave.


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