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lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

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jakemoore
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lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby jakemoore » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:20 am

My money is on the foiler with an ultralight foil kite and a board that can sink to resist the kite.

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby plummet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:30 am

keh?

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby jakemoore » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:11 pm

plummet wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:30 am
keh?
Ever want for a more buoyant foil board to improve light wind performance? An SUP with a foil on it?

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby grigorib » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:28 pm

jakemoore wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:20 am
My money is on the foiler with an ultralight foil kite and a board that can sink to resist the kite.
A board with thin rails (so they submerge into water well) would be very helpful for the reason you describe above.
Floaty center and thin rails.

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby norcom » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:31 pm

I"ve been contemplating this exact thought for a while. I have a Spleene Surf Door 5'0 and a 5'7 that I'm planning to use a foil on. I would have already mounted the foil and tried it but the boards require holes to be drilled and I'm a bit reluctant to do that.

I think the sinker could definitely give a better grip to start with in the "lightest winds" but I don't think it'll be much. I was having trouble getting up on my Slingshot Converter in some ultra-light winds this past weekend. I could sink the board but there just wasn't enough wind to pull me out with the kite I was flying. Some times the flotation while being sunk actually helped as I could sign the kite a couple of more times while floating/balancing and finally get going.

The one drawback that I can definitely see happening in ultra light winds is that the sinker could sink during botched transitions. The floater gives you that second of flotation when you jibe and touch the water.

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby jakemoore » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:23 pm

norcom wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:31 pm
The one drawback that I can definitely see happening in ultra light winds is that the sinker could sink during botched transitions. The floater gives you that second of flotation when you jibe and touch the water.
I think area would help more than volume in a botch transition.

Even if the speed over water is zero, a board with area will move deeper slowly due to drag even with minimal buoyancy. Just a slow bit of movement and you are on plane.

Even more is the ability to recover. Its way easier for me to practice balance on the alaia in a swimming pool than for example a corky surf board.

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby bragnouff » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:10 pm

probably not gonna rehash here what is debated on http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2397685

What you seem to miss here, is that the "floaters" we consider here in our context are still sinkers. They can still be sunk, angled correctly for waterstart, and considering they have the similar surface area as your sinkers and have at least the same ability to resist the pull of the kite. But with more thickness and something like 20-30l of volume, as opposed to 3l, they don't sink that fast, and not as deep, which helps between two power spikes in marginal winds.
Its way easier for me to practice balance on the alaia in a swimming pool than for example a corky surf board.
That's quite flawed, sure you're more balanced and stable, because you're chest deep in the water, whereas the corky surf board would keep you waist deep.
And in our context of foiling to get back on the plane, being deep in the water takes extra power to overcome.
I agree however, that when powered enough that getting on the foil is no problem, it is somehow easier to do some slow speed transitions and foot switches when the board is fully submerged.

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:17 pm

Under 9 knots, what self respecting kiter actually gives a shit?

I get that there are extremists, they can keep the volume. For anyone willing to wait for an actual breeze. Volume is more hindrance than help.

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby bigtone667 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:54 am

I had the Shinn El Stubbo and Shinnster boards and found their planing area too small and rocker too much in 8 knot conditions for my weight. I could never get up enough speed to "unsink" the board and plane.

I decided to attach the foil to a Crazyfly LW cruiser (150x50) with almost zero rocker and this certainly worked well. The planing area of the board made a huge difference in getting onto the surface of water and getting speed to plane.

I then tried the Naish Hover 155 (glorified skim board) and it has been the best of all the light wind starters I have tried. It has a small amount of volume (15l) but it is flat and wide.

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Re: lightest winds - floaters vs sinkers

Postby jakemoore » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:22 am

bragnouff wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:10 pm
Its way easier for me to practice balance on the alaia in a swimming pool than for example a corky surf board.
That's quite flawed, sure you're more balanced and stable, because you're chest deep in the water, whereas the corky surf board would keep you waist deep.
And in our context of foiling to get back on the plane, being deep in the water takes extra power to overcome.
I agree however, that when powered enough that getting on the foil is no problem, it is somehow easier to do some slow speed transitions and foot switches when the board is fully submerged.
Neck deep for me. But bending the knees e.g. for a water start the board is not that deep in the water. Easy to waterstart the alaia in very light winds.

I've two foil boards. A Crazy-Fly chill deck proto and an MHL lift. I can sit on the Lift to balance it underwater e.g. to wrap lines or try and relaunch the kite. There is zero chance I could stand on it underwater.


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