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toeside technique

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slowboat
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toeside technique

Postby slowboat » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:17 am

I am comfortable riding toeside but find I cannot go upwind as well as I can heelside, especially when underpowered. Is this expected or with better technique should I be able to point just as high toeside as heelside? I use a rope harness which helps. Any suggestions to go upwind better on toeside appreciated.

Thanks

high as a kite
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Re: toeside technique

Postby high as a kite » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:54 am

I also have the same problem, will be interested in replies.
I can't keep the speed up to completed the feet transition after a jibe.

borist
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Re: toeside technique

Postby borist » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:46 am

slowboat wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:17 am
Is this expected or with better technique should I be able to point just as high toeside as heelside?
Thanks
In short: yes on both. I use rope harness as well. My toeside on the strong side is getting very close in efficiency to heelside, but it took a while. Weak side is still, ehmm, ....weak. Body orientation on heelside tack makes it a lot easier to handle the kite properly to get most out of it. You can improve your kite handling riding toeside by simply paying attention to details, like the kite position, movement, etc... Proper body position on the board will create correct heal and loading of the foil to keep the speed up. All of it comes with plenty of practice. However, I do believe some types of foils are easier to ride toeside than others. I found race style foils more difficult than freeride ones and my current foil, Zeeko Spitfire, the easiest. This might be just my personal preference though.
Do you use straps? If so, one or two on the front? I use two which is not the best for toeside, but still doable. I'd recommend to practice reasonably powered on a small/medium size kite, so you don't need to sine it for power. Concentrate on board balance and play with it to see/feel what works better. Try not to lean windward too much and work on keeping your speed high. The rest will come with time

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: toeside technique

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:00 am

Pratice pratice pratice, did i say "pratice" ? :)

junebug
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Re: toeside technique

Postby junebug » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:28 pm

For me, doing progressively quicker S turns while in toeside, focusing on toe (upwind) and heel (downwind) pressure, has helped me understand just how much I can carve upwind. Plus, it’s fun in its own right.

I can’t get the same upwind angle as heelside, but I’m closer on my strong side. I still have a ways to go in switch stance. In addition to the S turns, I’m working on really leaning my body out away from the kite and getting the feeling of driving the foil upwind that I have on upwind runs in heelside.

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DukeSilver
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Re: toeside technique

Postby DukeSilver » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:21 am

I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing lesser upwind angles when riding toe side. I can force the board to go higher upwind - close to heel side angles - but it feels like the board speed really suffers compared to foiling the same angle on heel side. When I'm riding toe side slightly under powered, there is almost a feeling of needing too much back foot pressure to stay on the foil - almost like I'm doing a wheelie on a bike - but the front wing doesn't ventilate. When this happens, I do a foot switch to heel side and it feels like the wind has increased by 5-10kts and I have ample power again. This is frustrating to me as I know there is plenty of power when riding heel side. Oh well, I guess I'll just keep tweeking my technique to try and improve this area of my riding.

slowboat
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Re: toeside technique

Postby slowboat » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:11 am

DukeSilver wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:21 am
I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing lesser upwind angles when riding toe side. I can force the board to go higher upwind - close to heel side angles - but it feels like the board speed really suffers compared to foiling the same angle on heel side. When I'm riding toe side slightly under powered, there is almost a feeling of needing too much back foot pressure to stay on the foil - almost like I'm doing a wheelie on a bike - but the front wing doesn't ventilate. When this happens, I do a foot switch to heel side and it feels like the wind has increased by 5-10kts and I have ample power again. This is frustrating to me as I know there is plenty of power when riding heel side. Oh well, I guess I'll just keep tweeking my technique to try and improve this area of my riding.
You described well the underpowered feeling on toeside. I can lean pretty aggressively to windward (as one would heelside) but it doesn't really seem to help. I wonder if there is just some inherent limitation on toeside or if with enough experience and proper technique one can be as efficient on teoside as on heelside.

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Re: toeside technique

Postby juandesooka » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:30 am

I think toeside efficiency is 80 to 90% at best. I don't know why exactly, I guess just the angles aren't quite ideal. You mentioned leaning in harder ... I don't think that's it, if anytthing it's more about yaw, twisting your lower body more upwind.

I have found the lesser efficiency can sometimes be an advantage, if you're over powered heelside, then toeside gives a little relief. But if under powered then it can be more difficult to get up on the foil toeside

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Peter_Frank
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Re: toeside technique

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:21 pm

Agree, you will always be a bit less efficient, or a lot, toeside when going upwind.

The very best riders are so good that they can get close, where beginners are very far, and us mere mortals are somewhere in between.

It has partly been discussed in this thread I remember: Timing when carving

This "inefficiency" is why we can not carve as well toe-to-heelside in light wind, as heel-to-toeside, flying the kite normally over.
As you need to go reasonably high upwind before carving, to have a chance in marginal wind.
Also the reason why it is usually way easier to downloop, to carve back from toeside in marginal winds, as here you can carve first and keep the lines tensioned thus more chance for success.
Whereas with heel-to-toeside carves you can start going higher upwind at same speed, so you can fly the kite up and over without getting slack lines thus possible to make a flying carve in marginal winds, as opposed to toeside to heelside turns.

I often carve flying the kite up from heel to toeside, and then "cheat" and downloop when carving back from toeside - in marginal winds, as it works.
But I also KNOW it is my personal inefficiency upwind on toeside that is the very reason why I can not carve back in marginal winds, so I practice flying the kite up first, eventhough I have to give up sometimes and downloop instead :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: toeside technique

Postby juandesooka » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:25 pm

Agree pf. That makes sense from an efficiency explanation. If you can't point as high upwind then that reduces angle a bit.

though toe to heel carve also has added challenge of starting the turn leaning backward, back to the kite. Whereas heel to toe you are leaning into the kite, cornering like a speed skater.

Just slightly more challenging. .. noticeable yesterday, was over powered, toe to heel turns "on tiptoes"


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