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Mast length and boosting

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Kitemanmuc
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Mast length and boosting

Postby Kitemanmuc » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:22 am

Trying to figure out if there are any benefits to a 111 mast when it comes to boosting.

Have a 101 at the moment but am thinking of switching to 111. My foiling style is boosting and going fast, but I don’t want to give up and boost height for a longer mast. Any thoughts are appreciated

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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby cwood » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:56 pm

My opinion, there is probably some advantage but it is small and you give up rigidity with every increase in length. We are boost obsessed here and find that 100 is about the sweet spot. There could be logic that you get an added 10cm of lift of the wings before coming out of the water but I believe the major factors are speed, angle to the wind, the moment of "send" of the wings (the ramp) with the wing deep in the water and line tension. We also find that depending on location, 10 more cm to deal with makes a big difference in getting off shore...it seems like a small increment but with sand bars etc it has a huge impact as you try to get out.

Kitemanmuc
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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby Kitemanmuc » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:08 am

cwood wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:56 pm
My opinion, there is probably some advantage but it is small and you give up rigidity with every increase in length. We are boost obsessed here and find that 100 is about the sweet spot. There could be logic that you get an added 10cm of lift of the wings before coming out of the water but I believe the major factors are speed, angle to the wind, the moment of "send" of the wings (the ramp) with the wing deep in the water and line tension. We also find that depending on location, 10 more cm to deal with makes a big difference in getting off shore...it seems like a small increment but with sand bars etc it has a huge impact as you try to get out.
Thank you for your feedback! I would completely agree with that assessment! I think 100cm is about the sweet spot.
How about wing? Do you find any benefit to a race wing, vs freeride besides speed. I dont know if im imagining it or if a race wing loads up a little better.

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lovethepirk
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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby lovethepirk » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:48 am

I love boosting! I just rode my race wing in 24 knots tonight in flatwater on a 12m kite lmfao!!!! Got some sick air. Jumping between a mast length of 100 vs 110 cm will not make much difference at all....a race wing will help you b/c you can immediately increase your speed which puts that much more pressure over the kite, plus it exits the water faster. Race foil all the way for jumping no question asked. When I boost I enter the jump at a normal height, then I load my front hip with pressure and get the board as low to the water as I can without hitting chop, then I fking send it and explode the foil out of the water. Watch how this guy digs his weight into his forward hip to lower the foil and to explode.....a longer mast would not help him. https://youtu.be/5gfFAtcRGaQ?t=56s

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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby bragnouff » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:08 am

Isn't this a case where the Spitfire would work well too? By being able to handle a bit more back foot pressure on the launch, that would make it a bit more natural? Resilience to partial front wing breaches would also be more forgiving with timing screw ups.
I've only jumped with that foil, so can't really comment about how it compares to a traditional foil design. But it feels pretty right and natural in terms of launching and landing. I like the noise on landing when the foil punches through the water.

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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby cwood » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:53 pm

Kitemanmuc wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:08 am
cwood wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:56 pm
My opinion, there is probably some advantage but it is small and you give up rigidity with every increase in length. We are boost obsessed here and find that 100 is about the sweet spot. There could be logic that you get an added 10cm of lift of the wings before coming out of the water but I believe the major factors are speed, angle to the wind, the moment of "send" of the wings (the ramp) with the wing deep in the water and line tension. We also find that depending on location, 10 more cm to deal with makes a big difference in getting off shore...it seems like a small increment but with sand bars etc it has a huge impact as you try to get out.
Thank you for your feedback! I would completely agree with that assessment! I think 100cm is about the sweet spot.
How about wing? Do you find any benefit to a race wing, vs freeride besides speed. I dont know if im imagining it or if a race wing loads up a little better.
In theory a race wing due to speed and overall performance should be better than a free ride. The aerodynamics / hydrodynamics and physics are such that speed can be converted to the energy that gives you more lift at the wing and at the kite (wing). I have stayed with a fast freeride (Moses 558) for general ridability and durability but will be adding a race wing to test. One issue with the race wings is that they are not all built for it. Have seen many just disintegrate here. Our sessions are averaging into hundreds of jumps and average boost heights between 30 and 40 feet so a lot of stress cycles (and on the boards too...we are now having highly reinforced ones built). Course, you have to be able to hold the tension at speeds that are getting scary so its all a trade off and also some safety factors here. There is quite a crew now on woo coding sessions as #hydrofoil and its so fun to push and compete and the data allows us to test and try different equipment and techniques. (smokin deal on woo 3 currently btw)
Join us foiling on woo!
Chuck Tatham

cwood
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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby cwood » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:57 pm

bragnouff wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:08 am
Isn't this a case where the Spitfire would work well too? By being able to handle a bit more back foot pressure on the launch, that would make it a bit more natural? Resilience to partial front wing breaches would also be more forgiving with timing screw ups.
I've only jumped with that foil, so can't really comment about how it compares to a traditional foil design. But it feels pretty right and natural in terms of launching and landing. I like the noise on landing when the foil punches through the water.
One of our stronger boosters went through a Spitfire phase...and is now back on a conventional setup. I will have to ask him about his thoughts here.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:06 pm

lovethepirk wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:48 am
I love boosting! I just rode my race wing in 24 knots tonight in flatwater on a 12m kite lmfao!!!! Got some sick air. Jumping between a mast length of 100 vs 110 cm will not make much difference at all....a race wing will help you b/c you can immediately increase your speed which puts that much more pressure over the kite, plus it exits the water faster. Race foil all the way for jumping no question asked. When I boost I enter the jump at a normal height, then I load my front hip with pressure and get the board as low to the water as I can without hitting chop, then I fking send it and explode the foil out of the water. Watch how this guy digs his weight into his forward hip to lower the foil and to explode.....a longer mast would not help him.
phpBB [video]

Hmmm, not sure it always is like that :roll:

In the video the water is almost flat.

But in most spots with onshore and 24 knots you would have 1-2 meter chopwaves.
If you are lucky you will have waves, but often not clean in that much wind when onshore, where hydrofoiling is really fun.

So longer masts, when sufficiently stiff - and they CAN be if thicker near the board, without more drag, would be an advantage for going fast thus jumping, in these conditions.

So I would think the shorter mast works well when quite flat only :wink:

Even here, sometimes he sprays down on the water at takeoff when he lowers the board (and he even HAS a quite long mast), this will definitely mean lost energy and height, so good margin with a long mast could be even better maybe ?

(said from a non booster I know, but still)

8) PF

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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby cwood » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:02 pm

The Withington video is a 110 Ghost Whisperer mast and roughly the equivalent of a 558 wing. Peter makes a good point on the waves being a factor...I still find 1m to be the most versatile...enough to keep wing in the water and launch off (through) waves and reasonable to get off the beach.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Mast length and boosting

Postby Pedro Marcos » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:57 am

Ive a 91, 101 and a 111 mast. The 91 feels better when jumping, its just lighter and "easier" but you can hold more power with the 111 no doubt.


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