Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby Flyboy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:08 am

It's never been sitting in a hot car & there's no indication at all that the valve is coming off - it seems to be stuck on really solid. There's just a little stream of air escaping from one spot. The kite is a 2015 Best Cabo - supposedly some of these kites had delamination problems, but I have two others that I have used a fair bit without any problems. It the valves all start to delaminate I would rather just replace them with new valves, but until that happens I'm hoping a little Aquaseal bead might seal the leak.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5112
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton ronix rpm ozone

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby edt » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:12 am

I have owned I guess 20? A lot of kites, anyway, there is one kite I got from the factory which had a bad valve just as you describe. I heated water to pull, but the glue was good, somehow it was just a defect, my guess is that when they stuck the valve there was a wrinkle in the bladder which will cause a leak. I eventually decided to just cut out the valve, tape over make a new hole and restick. I would give the valve a little yank first, see if it feels at all loose. If it feels loose heat it up and pull it off. If you think it's a manufacturing defect and the glue seems solid, put glue on it.

One hint: sand the area first! You want a good mechanical bond so that the glue sticks. Also clean well with rubbing alcohol after you sand it. Then apply the glue. It will definitely work but like I said before, just make sure that the problem is a wrinkle under the valve instead of the glue failing, otherwise, you will just have to cut it out and restick anyway.

User avatar
GregK
Frequent Poster
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:22 am
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Comox, BC
CANADA
Style: Freeride
Brand Affiliation: Comox Kite Repair
http://www.comoxkiterepair.ca
Location: Comox, BC
Contact:

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby GregK » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:49 am

My limited experience with the Kiteaid valve donuts has been of mixed results. If the valve to be re-attached and the bladder film at the valve's position will sit flat with no coning, twisting, bumps, or wrinkles in the area where the donut will contact bladder & valve shoulder, then I have had very good results - the valves remain on and no leaks. Numbers of donut re-attachments done are small, maybe a dozen, and in use just over a year.

The picture below ( apologies in advance - bladders are very difficult to photograph well without a tripod and slow expsoure / no flash ) is an attempt to show a delaminated inflate valve with a nice flat shoulder, and the mating bladder location is also nice and flat. There is a ring of original adhesive or bonding film from the original valve installation which refused to be soaked or steamed off, but it's not a problem, as it's outside the area where the valve donut will adhere to the bladder film.
Image

However if there is coning of the bladder film, the valve shoulder is dished up or one side bent or twisted, then in short order the donut will not seal or keep the valve in place. For cases of valve or bladder distortion, I have had excellent results with Airtime valve traps - approximately 500 installed and in use out there, with only 0.4 % return / failure rate over many years, starting not long after the product was introduced.

Bushflyr
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 893
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:14 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: OR Razor 7m
Caution Spitfire 9m, 10m
Firewire Vanguard 5' 4"
Naish Global 5' 10"
Shinn Monk
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby Bushflyr » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:50 am

Flyboy wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:08 am
It the valves all start to delaminate I would rather just replace them with new valves, but until that happens I'm hoping a little Aquaseal bead might seal the leak.
DO NOT DO THIS! EVER!

Seriously. You'll just make a mess and ruin your kite. There is nothing wrong with the valve itself. Every manufacturer out there uses crappy heat bonding stickum to glue their valves on because it's cheap and easy. But it doesn't last. I've done over a hundred valves and NEVER had one fail after repair just do as followes:

1. Heat the valve with a hair dryer to soften the existing glue and peel it off.

2. Give it a quick swipe with alcohol to get the finger oils off. No reason to sand it at all, the Aquaseal bonds chemically so the mechanical bit is irrelevant.

3. Put a piece of cooking parchment in the bladder so you don't stick the two halves together when you glue it.

4. Put a thin skin of Aquaseal on BOTH the valve and the bladder. Wait 10 minutes for it to dry a bit.

5. Stick the valve on and put a bit of weight on it. I use 2.5 - 5 lbs. Whatever isn't on my dumbbell at the moment.

6. Let it sit overnight.

If you follow these steps you'll never have another valve failure. Also, if one valve goes reglue them all. The next one isn't far behind.

User avatar
fokiten
Frequent Poster
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:27 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: The New Old West

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby fokiten » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:47 pm

Didn't read the whole thread, but being in the mood, my two cents:

Had all six valves unglue themselves, did the standard repair-- about half of them were successful, the other three were flawed...so what the f***? Having a Best HELLFISH, that's right a seriously bad idea for the desert but a repository for bladder material..I fashioned vynal donuts out of bladder material....used a shot gun shell to size the valve hole and just put it over the offending valve....used a roll of tape as a pressure device....and weighted it with a booze bottle..
It worked, buy the buy I just used off the shelf vynal glue.....
It worked!
Right on
fo

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5112
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton ronix rpm ozone

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby edt » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:25 pm

Do NOT use vinyl glue for bladders. Bladders are polyurethane and the vinyl glues will melt the bladder material and unless you are very careful you will get wrinkles. There are at least 3 or 4 glues which have been proven to work great with bladder material I know off the top of my head that both aquaseal and 3m5200 red fast cure are great. Be careful with your glue selection, it makes a difference. Also, while the glues do make a chemical bond you should always lightly sand too because it's good to have both chemical and mechanical grip. Rubbing alcohol to clean, sand lightly, clean the bladder, use proper glue, weight it down with a cylinder and you will have a bond which will last the life of the bladder.

User avatar
Gigi;)
Frequent Poster
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:23 pm
Kiting since: 0
Location: drtuba.eu, kite-stuff.org, eXtremist.si, kajtar.si
Contact:

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby Gigi;) » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:58 am

Hi,

few how to's on valve delamination thread




For more useful videos & tips and additional descriptions you can check the rest of our videos here:
http://drtuba.eu/services/how-to-video-manuals.html

If you want to replace the bladders instead of repairing them:
http://best-kitebladders.com/

Happy repairing :bye:

User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby Flyboy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:18 am

A follow up FWIW: I used Aquaseal to seal the small leak in the valve. It seemed (at least temporarily) to seal the leak. However ... having plugged this leak, I discovered more, very small, leaks. Patched those ... & then discovered more. Patched those ... & then discovered more. And so on. It became something of a science experiment. Eventually I had 25 patches on the bladder ... & it still deflated.

This was really incomprehensible to me. I had flown the kite perhaps 3 or 4 times previously with no issues. Arrived in Hatteras & pumped up the kite (at Kite Beach) on a sandy area. Flipped the kite over & while laying out the lines saw that the LE had deflated. It seems impossible that the bladder had sustained multiple punctures in a number of different areas in that simple scenario. I subsequently had no problems with other kites during my week at Hatteras.

I have now a new LE bladder from Airtime waiting to install. I'm wondering if there might be some foreign object inside the LE sleeve that damaged the bladder in multiple spots as I slid it out of the kite. I have never experienced anything like this before. Has anyone else?

knotwindy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:49 am
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: baja, gorge
Style: erratic to none
Gear: yes, I use gear
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby knotwindy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:02 pm

Had a friend who had a similar story. After lots of tries he called and we fixed some pinholes and I watched as he pulled the le bladder through the middle opening fairly quickly and saw the zipper pulling on the bladder. We figured every time he had re-inserted the bladder he was micro-tearing it so we put tape on the zipper and slowed down the speed and no more holes. Don’t remember what kite it was, this was 6-7 years ago. Never did find out if that was really the problem or not. Might have just been coincidence.
Could also be just a bad bladder, some might just be thinner/weaker?

User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Valve Delaminating/Repair - 2009 Best HP Nemesis

Postby Flyboy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:00 pm

It's possible that the zipper may have damaged the kite ... it seems unlikely, but it's possible. In my case, I only took the bladder out twice - I removed it the first time, patched the obvious holes & reinserted it, then removed it again & fixed the additional twenty plus holes without putting the bladder back in. I'll take a close look at the zip/bladder interaction. If that IS the cause, this would certainly be a valuable cautionary tale to share on Kiteforum.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Jukka and 11 guests

cron