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Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well?

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juandesooka
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well

Postby juandesooka » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:41 pm

Foil wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:23 am
Sailing the Hoverglide was like trying to walk along a very thin girder with someone at each end shaking it.
Sailing the Moses was like trying to walk along a long suspended rope with someone at each end shaking the rope.
But well worth the effort and time,
Moving over to the Moses carbon gear is not a must do, just a nice to do if your a gear junkie like me.
at risk of a thread hijack (though maybe not, if the advice to OP is to start on easy gear and then advance later):
it sounds like you had quite a frustrating transition from the friendly hoverglide to the moses. But in the end, you said it was worth it. What were the performance enhancements that made it worthwhile to you? Faster? Better turning?

Foil
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well

Postby Foil » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:47 am

the Moses being so much lighter is a joy to transport around, the long walk to the water is so much easier and less of an endurance test, even flicking it around and into position for a water start is quick and easy, on the water it feels more alive, so responsive and quick to react to every body movement(not what you want when learning) and when your finished and need to get in out of the shorebreak quickly the Lightness of the moses lets you take control and stay on your feet. all little things that make the experience more enjoyable.
also when you hit it with any part of your body feet legs etc it hurts less due to it being so light and floaty, big downside of the Moses for starting on is the fact you will damage the wings very quickly as you continually ground out scraping the bottom on all your first attempts at getting up, and that can last for many months for the average newbie.composite plastic wings or G10 glass will not suffer so much and plastic is easy to reprofile and repair, G10 glass is nigh impossible to damage.

You could start off on a moses if you buy the right bits, ie board-the T40 if your light or average, or the T60 if heavier, a 60 or 70cm carbon mast, you will not damage the mast and it will be good forever or sell on to upgrade to a 91cm later on, the fuselage and rear stabilizer will last forever and again you are very unlikely to damage these, the front wing, you will damage this quite quickly, so you need to buy 2, one for use and one on standby, and 2 tubes of JB epoxy grey repair paste, which needs 24 hours to cure.(EBAY)
If you can afford it go for the Moses Onda sup foil set up and learn in less time than what has been possible before, some are saying up and flying in less than a day, this short mast set up is full carbon and will last you forever, check out this video, gunner here is using the Onga foil set up on a 91 cm mast,----
https://youtu.be/I4XUBfao4Ek
so it may cost you a pretty penny but it will allow for quick and enjoyable learning and should never need replacing, apart from maybe a longer mast, all Moses carbon masts fit the Onda set up, I aim to use this set up for learning my transitions and for use in the sometimes shallow waters near me.
I have just bought the Onda kit but as yet it has not been used, I am hope to get it wet either today or over the next few days as the winds and temperature look like they are coming good at last.
whatever kit you buy you will have a great time learning, but there is better kit available nowadays, the advances over the last few years has been all good for the newbie, and opened up new experiences for the ones further on.
As with many sports your choice needs to be aligned with your own physical make up, if your fit and young you can get away with less friendly gear, modified twin tip and heavy old gear, this set up however may not suit all,you may need to take advise from a foiler who knows you well for the best advice.

Foil
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Gear: Moses T38 full carbon Ltd edition.
101cmMoses Carbon mast
Moses- 633 wave wing and stab
Moses 2018 637 race wing and stab,
Ozone Reo 6/8/9/10/12/
Nobile 50/50 twin tip
North 2018 click bars
massive grin
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well ?

Postby Foil » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:47 pm

I did try out the moses Onda foil set today on the shorter 61cm mast, tomorrow I will set it on the 101 cm mast.
first impressions are good, I wish this was available when I first started, but so glad its now mine as today it was so much fun, so stable, yet so fast to turn, and stall speed was next to no speed at all, walking pace!
but still fast and smooth, very smooth and silent,the lift to flying was instant in very little wind.
Going slow was easy due to the low stall speed and stability, maintaining a low glide height was also easy, something I have tried to do on other set ups but without this level of stability, so my thoughts at this early stage is its going to be fantastic for learning on, and for me fantastic for learning my transitions on.
I was amazed that the wing when it did break the surface did not immediately send me swimming, it gave me time to press down after hearing the gurgling and re- engage without fuss or drama.

TomW
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well?

Postby TomW » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:03 pm

OP,

You got the answers you need.

It's an adventure to learn, way harder than a TT or surfboard. I learned on a Moses 93cm mast and intermediate wings.

I highly recommend a few hours of lessons. 2-4 hours and you'll get up.
Your trainer will not only give you valuable riding tips and help, but make sure you have the right kite, go to right spot to avoid underwater collisions, and will help you carry the gear back when you inevitability drift downwind the first hour or so.

Then you'll be able to solo.

My experience is you have to have an all-in mindset.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:41 pm

Foil is spot on - you can start with "user friendly" gear, and stick with it yes, which I think is the best for occasional riders, easy and does the job well.

Or you can start like that, and like many (most ?) upgrade to lighter and better gear later.

Or you can start with better gear right away, and struggle more learning, but dont have to change later.

The last option though, is also risky, as more expensive, and if you dont have a clue what you want in the long run (racing, waves, freestyle, jumping etc etc) it does not make that much sense.

8) Peter

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downunder
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well?

Postby downunder » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:30 am

Two things:

- lighter setup
- heavier setup

You'll always reach for the first, no matter what ;)

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Kykeon
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well?

Postby Kykeon » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:16 am

From what I read in this thread and also confirmed from my experience :

If you are the kind of person that enjoys learning something new, even while not being good at it, it's worth it.
After a few (maybe just one) sessions you will be able to go upwind and return where you started.

If you are not regular and some of the days you could kite you don't because of low wind, it's worth it because you expand the low end.

Compared to tt.
TT took me maybe 10 sessions to be able to return where I started.
Foil only 3.
IMHO this is the point you have to pass as fast as possible, the rest is just fun, no stress.
Nevertheless it must be a bit steeper learning curve.

What this thread made me realize is how much we are all obsessed with the equipment. And how important /influential it is. This was not a question about equipment but it's so damm hard to avoid speaking about it...

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downunder
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well?

Postby downunder » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:50 am

^
nope, I'm not. Generalization is the mother of all fcups... I do like more not so heavy things since not built for that ;)

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Kykeon
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well?

Postby Kykeon » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:17 am

Downunder this was not a comment about your post specifically, it's the general route the thread got.

So you believe that for the occasional rider it's worth it only if he uses light gear?

nothing2seehere
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Re: Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:32 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:13 pm
It's going to be pretty hard to learn to foil well enough that it becomes fun if you can only do it occasionally.
^^ This! ^^

I'm only an occasional foiler. It gives me something to do for those 11-17 knot days. I haven't progressed enough to really love it (still working on tacks and jibes) but its better than sitting on the beach waiting for the wind to pick up - and more fun/challenging than riding a light wind twin tip.

I probably get out maybe once a month on average on the foil (really lucky with good wind last year) but I don't notice any drop off in skill between session as an occasional rider. Yes, I'd get much better with regular session time but it still works as a light wind option for occasional riders. Just don't try and push the low end before you have the skills


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