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High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

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Onda
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Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Postby Onda » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:00 am

oregonkiter wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:28 pm
As it is with current fuse, my 633 on a 105cm carbon mast already floats horizontally for 15-30 seconds when I fall off. I often need to push it down to maneuver the board...
As a total foil beginner (2 sessions on my Moses 633 / Groove Skate) I can acknowledge that. The floating wing makes strapless starts really easy - almost exactly like on a strapless waveobard. I startet strapless right away (mainly because of the narrow plug positioning for the straps on the Skate board) and I had no problems whatsoever.
Sometimes I wished the wing would sink faster... Turning the board by 180° while lying in the water is not very handy with the wing floating on the water surface.

fun2kite
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Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Postby fun2kite » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:58 pm

you can just ride T60 strapless and it will work good. I do with my T40.
jash999 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:57 am
cwood wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:50 am
The other thing to note is that the 633 and big wings that came from Surf and SUP line are a problem for the geometry of the fixed mast on the standard Moses boards. They require a big shift in center of gravity forward...beyond a standard footstrap location. If you are going to use them a lot then you really need a board with tracks so you can adjust the mast rearward.
Now I realize I have a second problem before I can decide on getting a 633.... I need a new board with tracks or I have to custom fit tracks on T60. Thanks, cwood, for making the decision more complicated!

TomW
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Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Postby TomW » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:56 pm

Let's say I'm hunting lightwind and there's no waves at all..like 6-8 knots and a 13m foil race kite.
What Moses wing set up be best? I have 550 and 590 wings. Wonder if better to get race wings or the Onda. I'm on 2016 Fluente mast which I will not change.

oregonkiter
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Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Postby oregonkiter » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:30 pm

Tom, can you comment on the differences between the 550 and 590 wings?

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Foxi
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Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Postby Foxi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:43 pm

TomW wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:56 pm
Let's say I'm hunting lightwind and there's no waves at all..like 6-8 knots and a 13m foil race kite.
What Moses wing set up be best? I have 550 and 590 wings. Wonder if better to get race wings or the Onda. I'm on 2016 Fluente mast which I will not change.
Hi Tom - Mono 12 on 633/Skate in 8 kts already feels fully blown, 9m LEI is my choice @ 78 kg from 9kts onwards.
On 633 you can ride lake waves as I do have it here on lake Garda either from higher winds or from bigger boats .. or shuttles .. you „release“ any bar input and feel the push of the wave driving your foil. Switching to 590 you simply cut the wave. 633 has no stallspeed threshold. You‘re sinking slowly down till you touch at zero speed whereas on 590 you fall off your prior riding height at same low speed. If you send the kite, you foil. Immediately. That‘s why it perfectly fits the Skate as volume is not needed to support any floating phase.
Given a kite size and skills 590 will easily be faster. I‘ve been out with mates on classic 2017 Fluentes and it was obvious - nothing else had been expected. Compare 590 to 633 side by side .. double surface or even more ? Plus profile thickness .. Man, internet hype doesn’t replace physics and THERE IS significantly more resistance below you with 633 - otherwise Gunnar would surely take it to his race tour.
633 will support your low end for sure at its very low end. But for an actively-pushing-to-fly-rider on a 13m Foilkite I‘m not sure if that will be enough to satisfy your overall needs.

TomW
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Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Postby TomW » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:41 pm

oregonkiter wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:30 pm
Tom, can you comment on the differences between the 550 and 590 wings?
550 is magic wing. Its an intermediate wing. it will drop off flying a bit sooner than 590. So you need a bit more speed going into and out of transitions. Not a lot more, but noticable. 550 has less roll stability, Making it more agile and quicker turning. 550 has looser yaw too.
590 feels water turbulence more, making riding in chop and wavy water more difficult, but aftcuroer moving my front foothooks forward 70mm I can move stance forward and I've had less problems in turbulent water.
I've found that having room to move stance is important on both wings.

I use both wings, but have used 590 the most. I don't find top speed much different.
So 590 is more stable, more forgiving of you lose speed in transition. But trade-off is slightly less agility and more sensitive to water turbulence.

It sounds like 633 is best beginner wing and wing for waves. I'll probably get one , mostly out of curiosity and I'd like to set it up on my pocket 120cm strapless board I built.

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Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Postby Frank Rosin » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:23 pm

@TomW
I like how you describe the 550 and 590. Agree.
Sounds like a good idea and as you would enjoy the 633 a lot.

Cheers,
Frank
www.famousfrank.com


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