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Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

For all foil kite riders


haare
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Posts: 75
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 2:57 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Lahti, Finland
Favorite Beaches: Egypt - Marsa Alam
Style: Hydrofoil
Gear: Zeeko spitfire
F one diablo 6.4 and 8
Flysurfer sonic 2 11, 13, 18
Elf Joker 15
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Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

Postby haare » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:30 pm

I don't have VMG. But I assume it is similar to race because of 3 line briddle.

Sonic 2
is better allaround kite by far. Mainly it Jumps far better.
It feels like Mustang

Sonic race
Is very stable and ultra efficient. Flies clearly faster. Incredible pull. I have used 21m in 3 knots and am able to foil. (one mistake and you swim though.)
Very poor jumping ability even overpovered. It has plenty of glide. But no height.
More like lotus or other european sport car.
Last edited by haare on Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cwood
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Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Cherry Beach, Toronto
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Moses Hydrofoil
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Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

Postby cwood » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:03 pm

haare wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:30 pm
I don't have VMG. But I assume it is similar to race because of 3 line briddle.

Sonic 2
is better allaround kite by far. Mainly it Jumps far better.
It feels like Mustang

Sonic race
Is very stable and ultra efficient. Flies clearly faster. Incredible pull. I have used 21m in 3 knots and am able to foil. (one mistake and you swim though.)
Very poor jumping ability even overpovered. It has plenty of glide. But no height.
9m seems to boost just fine!

haare
Medium Poster
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 2:57 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Lahti, Finland
Favorite Beaches: Egypt - Marsa Alam
Style: Hydrofoil
Gear: Zeeko spitfire
F one diablo 6.4 and 8
Flysurfer sonic 2 11, 13, 18
Elf Joker 15
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

Postby haare » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:42 pm

cwood wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:03 pm
haare wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:30 pm
I don't have VMG. But I assume it is similar to race because of 3 line briddle.

Sonic 2
is better allaround kite by far. Mainly it Jumps far better.
It feels like Mustang

Sonic race
Is very stable and ultra efficient. Flies clearly faster. Incredible pull. I have used 21m in 3 knots and am able to foil. (one mistake and you swim though.)
Very poor jumping ability even overpovered. It has plenty of glide. But no height.
9m seems to boost just fine!
Have you actually compared it to sonic 2 9m?

cwood
Frequent Poster
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Cherry Beach, Toronto
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

Postby cwood » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:01 pm

haare wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:42 pm
cwood wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:03 pm
haare wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:30 pm
I don't have VMG. But I assume it is similar to race because of 3 line briddle.

Sonic 2
is better allaround kite by far. Mainly it Jumps far better.
It feels like Mustang

Sonic race
Is very stable and ultra efficient. Flies clearly faster. Incredible pull. I have used 21m in 3 knots and am able to foil. (one mistake and you swim though.)
Very poor jumping ability even overpovered. It has plenty of glide. But no height.
9m seems to boost just fine!
Have you actually compared it to sonic 2 9m?
No! I avoided the 9m s2 because I local kiter I have big respect for bought one and sent it back....said it was not a well behaved kite compared to the other sizes. The 9m s1 was a major handful as well to launch in twin tip wind ranges. I don't think the s2 has the same launch issues but he said it was not pleasant to fly.

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Horst Sergio
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Favorite Beaches: Every puddle I can find in Central Europe,
the unpopular the better
Style: SLOW STYLE & stuntkiting
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OZONE chrono, FLYSURFER sonic²/r, CONCEPTAIR wave
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Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:14 pm

haare wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:30 pm
"... Quote:
Sonic race
Is very stable and ultra efficient. Flies clearly faster. Incredible pull. I have used 21m in 3 knots and am able to foil. (one mistake and you swim though.)
Very poor jumping ability even overpovered. It has plenty of glide. But no height.
...
… End of Quote"

Don't worry the sonic race jumps like insane, but maybe you have to get used to it especially when flying on differen't line length and on short lines to do top loops starting far in luv of you. Just check Florian Gruber on a sonic race:
Image

I have one race in 11 m² even if there is absolute no need for it, if not racing, only argument was to be able to boost higher and be always very high powered even in wind significant under 10 knts. And it is great in absolute constant lowend around 5 knts not just due to being a bit lighter and significant more power but as it has higher better feel able bar forces than sonic², which allow to handle the last knt better in manouvers, but on the other hand the boarder to a no wind swim is so small, that I often prefer my 9 m² s² in front of 11 m² race.

And don't worry about sonics in 9 m² tried also several serial numbers (doesn't mean that there always can be something gone wrong with some, but have never heard anything),
but for me they are the best sizes in both ranges of sonic 1 and 2 where I tried all from 6 to 15 m².
But also Sonic² as sonic race is also just for really experienced rider, if you don't know how to handle and to set up it can be a mess for sure.

Sonic VMG
I haven't tried, but absolutely no interest, just the open class development of sonic race with even less bridle lines and for sure 1 or a bit more % better upwind and power and what not. But if not racing, who does it need?
If you can handle it, take a sonic² and have fun:
Possible to jump 20 m high, go 35° upwind against the wind, having a one kite 30 knts wide windrange (6 or 9 m² on a foil: 8 knt to 38 knts gusts), a fabric combination that may life extemly long ...
What else do you need?

@Toby Braeuer:
Posting advertisements of firms is cool, to keep your forum a live, but try to check if there is already a topic about next times, thank You.

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davesails7
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
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Local Beach: Virginia Beach
Style: Race
Gear: Delta Hydrofoil
Flysurfer Sonic2 9m,11m,18m
Sonic Race VMG 15m
OR Mako 130x35
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Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

Postby davesails7 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:10 am

I got to try out my new 15m Sonic VMG today in underpowered conditions. Felt fast, but I didn't have my GPS.

I've been on the Sonic 2's in 9m,11m,15m, and 18m for the last 2.5 years. Had Sonic 1s and a Chrono before that. I'm mostly racing. I've never ridden a Sonic race, so can't compare.

Wind was only about 10-12 knots when I got on the water and it dropped to probably about 6 knots at the end when I barely made it back to the beach. Only on the water for about 40 minutes. Usually I would be on my 18m in these conditions.

I heard from someone else that their VMG 11m seemed to not fly right at first, like the lines weren't pulled tight or something. Then after a few minutes theirs worked fine. My 15m flew perfectly, straight and stable, right out of the bag.

The biggest thing I noticed rigging up was how simple the bridle system is. Looks like half as many lines as a Sonic 2 bridle, so should be easier to clear tangles.

Air intakes on the VMG are small and spaced far apart, so took a while to pre-inflate (I always pre inflate). I hot launched it and by the time it reached the top of the window it was mostly inflated. Maybe a bit slower to inflate than Sonic 2.

Bar pressure when trimming felt slightly lighter than sonic 2, but took more pull on the bar when turning it hard.

Turning seemed a bit slower. I was on 15m lines and had room to loop it twice in a row to get going when the wind dropped out.

When riding upwind, even in the light conditions, it felt like I could push as hard as I wanted on my rear foot, and it would just keep going. With the Sonic 2 in those conditions, I'd have trouble keeping my rear leg straight going upwind and wouldn't be able to push as hard as I want. Also, even in light wind on Sonic 2, I usually have to pull 5 or 6 inches on the 4:1 depower. Wiith the VMG it felt like I could just push on my rear foot and go.

I noticed a big difference while tacking. On sonic 2, tacking feels like a multi-step process. Kite up- head upwind- switch feet etc. After a few tacks to get used to the kite, the VMG felt like it was all one fluid motion and I never slowed down, it just kept powering upwind through the whole tack and I was coming out with lots of speed.

It does seem like the VMG tips curl when the lines are slack, more than on the Sonic 2. If I turned the bar too hard when looping to get started, the lower tip would curl. Also, once or twice the lines went slack when I didn't foil through a tack in a lull. When the line were slack, one of the tips would usually flop up onto the bridle. The tip curls never caused any issues though. The kite was always fully controllable and the wingtip came right off as soon as the lines were tight and I pulled in the bar, but it definitely has more wingtip curl than the Sonic 2. Had no tip curl issues in foiling jibes, even when the lines went slack a few times.

I'm excited to see how it goes with more wind! Usual range for 15m for me is about 12-18 knots. I also want to compare back to back with the Sonic 2. Next time I'll make sure I remember my GPS!

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davesails7
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Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
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Flysurfer Sonic2 9m,11m,18m
Sonic Race VMG 15m
OR Mako 130x35
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Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

Postby davesails7 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:32 pm

Had several sessions on the VMG 15m now. It's crazy fast compared to the Sonic 2, but often feels out of control for me. I'm worried it is above my skill level (I'm a mid-fleet racer). Easing and trimming the bar just doesn't seem to do much. This thing is flying fast and you are just along for the ride :D

The biggest take away is, no matter how hard you push upwind, this thing just keeps pulling harder. You can't pinch upwind and relax for a second. Compared back-to-back with Sonic 2 18m in about 10 knots of wind I was going ~10 degrees higher :o and 1 mph faster upwind! Compared in 12-13 knots back-to-back with Sonic 2 15m I was going 2 mph faster and a few degrees higher upwind. Going 22-23 mph most of the time upwind on the VMG now at about 44 deg to the wind, sometimes as high as 37 deg to the wind.

Downwind, compared to Sonic 2, I"m also going about 2 mph faster at similar angles to Sonic 2.

Downwind I have no problem with controlling the power. Upwind, I start feeling out of control at only around 14 knots of wind. On Sonic 2, I can control the power much easier and feel comfortable at 17-18 knots. Going back to Sonic 2 in the same session makes Sonic 2 feel downright boring and too easy :lol:

The light bar pressure has been difficult to get used to also. When going through the tack, it's hard to feel where the kite is. When jibing, it is a bit harder as well. If the lines go slack during the jibe, the kite keeps flying forward in whatever direction it was pointing, where the Sonic 2 would kinda stall out wherever it was in the window and wait for the lines to regain tension.

So I'm way faster on the VMG, but I definitely crash more often. Have a regatta coming up in a month and it will be interesting to see how much faster I am on this kite. If I can keep from crashing all the time, I'll be really fast!

haare
Medium Poster
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 2:57 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Lahti, Finland
Favorite Beaches: Egypt - Marsa Alam
Style: Hydrofoil
Gear: Zeeko spitfire
F one diablo 6.4 and 8
Flysurfer sonic 2 11, 13, 18
Elf Joker 15
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Flysurfer Sonic Race VMG

Postby haare » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:14 pm

Hi,

update. 21m kite is still very difficult to fly. I have flown R1V2 19m which is very easy kite. Also elf joker 8 in 15m is easier kite to fly. Also P L aero 2 is easy compared to race at least in very big sizes. I deffinitely won't recommend it in gusty lake conditions.

About boosting. Finally got hang of it. Yes, it jumps big, however only if you are very overpowered or have long lines. With my 18m lines I was able to jump now about 10m jumps (good height for me especially with big kite). However if comfortably powered jumps are tricky. I don't have enough time to get the kite back to my front.

But I am sure it is 100x easier to jump with 15m or 18m because they turn faster.


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