tautologies wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Greenturtle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:16 pm
Any test results from naish or any other kite company, or a magazine test, cannot be viewed as the truth. Sorry. The graph and numbers are meaningless until it comes from independent sources in no way affiliated, which is probably just not going to happen.
To me, after weight, stretch is a more important factor than tearing resistance.
Any canopy from any manufacturer is going to rip when it encounters a sharp object.
In a tomahawk or wave break situation, the overall design of the kite is what will save it from damage.
In a tomahawk situation I believe that the lighter the kite the better. It is the kites own weight that rips them open on impact.
- Lighter kite going same speed does not hit with as much force, that is a fact.
If strength is the goal then why add more ripstop lines when you could just increase the thickness of the entire cloth a bit? Because you cannot see the difference, and thus defeats the marketing purpose.
Naish claims that because they used 4x they were able to reduce dacron and the kite is now lighter. BS if you ask me. Can anyone verify that the weight ACTUALLY dropped? Ive seen many a brand claim less weight year on year but the truth at the scales shows an increase!
And anyway, there are plenty of single ripstop kites with very little if any dacron....So naish could’ve reduced dacron AND kept the lighter canopy, so more BS...
Why so skeptical? If a company say something it has to be bullshit? You say It's totally meaningless? Why not use it as another data point to inform part of a total picture?
I mean why would they lie about something that is so easy to check as total weight? My new slash seems quite the upgrade in all respects. I do not distrust companies as much as you apparently do.
What I do find odd tho, is that you use a single data point, the definition of anecdotal data, as if it is as valid as sets of data and now suggest that companies should somehow use that to redesign kites. Come on that is not reasonable at all. I do not know how the tests were conducted, but I also know that your single experience with one random kite does not invalidate anything. Let's just approach this with some moderation and reasonable skepticism instead.
First of all, Im sure your slash is an awesome kite, and I respect that you find my own materials analysis to be short on science in almost every regard, because it is.
Well, I am skeptical of companies data about themselves generally speaking, not just in the kiting world, Im guilty as charged there. However-
Specifically I can offer that Best kahoona 10.5m going from 2014 to the 2015 model gained 136g of weight as measured by myself, despite the company proclaiming that it reduced dacron and lowered weight. They did reduce dacron. But added some plastic rubber scuff guards all over it instead of using “kevlar” as before. Also, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, ocean rodeo still claims they are making their lightest kites ever on the website, and as much as I give them credit for producing a really nice, truly lightweight 3 strut kite, it is not as light as it used to be. Liquid force says the solo v3 is lighter than v2, others on here have found them to be the same weight in reality.
If it is so easy to check the figures, then please someone other than naish employee, tell us how much a slash, pivot, etc weighed then (pre-quadtex) vs now. And while youre at it please lay them out to verify that the size did not change.
My experience with a beater kite is at least real world experience, and my personal conclusion is that those lighter materials are strong enough.
If keeping a given design as light as possible is good for performance, then thats what I want. If I was going to crash a kite over and over into bushes and trees, then maybe quad tex would be awesome, but added seams would probably contain the damage better than any canopy material choice.
My foundation in watersports is canoe racing, and we love us some lightweight carbon equipment. Some people even special order canoes and paddles in lighter layups than the lightest company offerings, requesting less resin or cloth, and paying more. This is true for marathon but also slalom, where agility is key. And this equipment does not even fly. So my viewpoint is kindof coming from that side of things.