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Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

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tegirinenashi
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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby tegirinenashi » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:06 pm

Dakine chameleon is a nice compromise between seat and waist harnesses. When I mentioned it on kiteforum, somebody noticed that velcro connection is not robust. Never experienced any detachments, but if you do, how hard is it to sew or glue them together?

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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby BraCuru » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:44 pm

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:45 pm
Thats exactly what i feel! Im used to do manouvers with the bar over my head or at least over my shoulders and now ive to do it much lower, about chest high to have the same feel. I use hook and normaly chiken loop, so ive to add a cable that attach to the hook and then to the chikenloop, any sugestion ?
Negative - then your bar will be too far when you keep a kite low.
I'd just rebuild your control system by replacing of the main line with a 15cm longer one.
would you show some pictures of your control system?
this is mine:
Image

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tegirinenashi
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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby tegirinenashi » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:15 pm

Is the small black ball your main release, while Cabrinha mushroom your secondary? (One would think that cab mushroom has better ergonomics)

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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby tomtom » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:41 pm

small ball is just stopper :) No releasable shackle connected to QR leash - redundancy to not loose kite at any cost :)

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:44 pm

BraCuru wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:44 pm
Pedro Marcos wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:45 pm
Thats exactly what i feel! Im used to do manouvers with the bar over my head or at least over my shoulders and now ive to do it much lower, about chest high to have the same feel. I use hook and normaly chiken loop, so ive to add a cable that attach to the hook and then to the chikenloop, any sugestion ?
Negative - then your bar will be too far when you keep a kite low.
I'd just rebuild your control system by replacing of the main line with a 15cm longer one.
would you show some pictures of your control system?
this is mine:
Image
Mine is standard Ozone race bar with chikenloop , problem with extenting 15cm the deepower rope is:

1 - i will get 15cm of oversheeting which will be annoyting, because if i want to get the bar away from me those 15cm i cannot put also 15cm on the steering lines.
2 - Ill have to modify my flag out line, which i want to keep

BTW, like i said on facebook, i still think your setup is abit dangerous:

1- that release does not work well under load (your first one), the suicide one is fine but should be on a flag out
2- you dont have a flag out system

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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby Jyoder » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:09 am

Foilers don’t need to flag out. 😈

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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby BraCuru » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:17 am

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:44 pm
Mine is standard Ozone race bar with chikenloop , problem with extenting 15cm the deepower rope is:

1 - i will get 15cm of oversheeting which will be annoyting, because if i want to get the bar away from me those 15cm i cannot put also 15cm on the steering lines.
2 - Ill have to modify my flag out line, which i want to keep

BTW, like i said on facebook, i still think your setup is abit dangerous:

1- that release does not work well under load (your first one), the suicide one is fine but should be on a flag out
2- you dont have a flag out system
Showing my system I wanted to indicate the extended travelling length of the bar which is 15cm longer than the original one to adapt to a seat harness.
I do not recommend my no-flag-out system to anybody.

Obviously such adaptation requires extension of all lines too.

In Ozone system it might be complicated due to flag out line which should be extended too.
Anyway I would go for such adaption of all lines or as you said to try with one extension line between a spreader bar and a chicken loop.
Please share your findings.
No doubt it is doable and should relief your back pains.

There are other advantages of a seat harness in my opinion:
- easier to launch a board in marginal winds by working with hips - moving them backwards accelerates a kite when it goes up. With a waist harness it does not work.
- better control in very gusty winds.
- increased wind range.

BTW - my snap hook is modified now and releases under a load.
tegirinenashi wrote: Is the small black ball your main release, while Cabrinha mushroom your secondary? (One would think that cab mushroom has better ergonomics)
Tomtom is right - the first release is a snaphook with a swivel and secondary is a Cabrinha's mushroom.

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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby fun2kite » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:09 am

I bought ION seat harness and also bought ION rope spreader bar. I rode it for a few months, but kept wondering why my back still hurts after ridding a seat harness.
I started paying attention to pressure points and realized that the top back seam of the harness was really pressuring my back.. there was almost no support from the "bottom" as it supposed to be..

I have no idea why.. I correctly sized that harness and I also tightened the the seat harness in all adjustable points.. So I just finally gave up and went back to my RideEngine.. Have much less pressure on my back than the ION seat harness..

Can anybody explain what could be the reason the seat harness was much worse for me than waist? Did anybody else experience the same issue?
ION-harness.jpg

This is the harness: https://www.ion-products.com/water/men/ ... ses/radar/

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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby Qiter » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:47 am

I think a common mistake with seat harnesses is that people wear them too high, basically similar to waist harnesses with loops for the legs. The seat harness must be REALLY low, meaning the pressure point should be around/ below the glutaeus muscles i.e. your ass. Try it, it works well after some adaptation period.

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Re: Riding powered: Seat vs Waist Harness

Postby BraCuru » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:06 pm

Qiter wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:47 am
I think a common mistake with seat harnesses is that people wear them too high, basically similar to waist harnesses with loops for the legs. The seat harness must be REALLY low,
True! True! True! 100% true.
I usually correct my straps and the harness once the harness is wet and then every 2 hour ish - just to make sure that it seats as low as possible.


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