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Different Bar Widths - Explained

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wiktorek
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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby wiktorek » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:59 pm

foilholio wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:41 am
And I am sorry you are an idiot.

You even argued against and disproved you own assertion while trying to prove it. Multi level stupid.

It's a simple concept. Am I surprised many people and those at some brands can't grasp it? Not really anymore, we have Trump after all.
One question, foilholio. If you take kite with handles (without bar) and make the same opposite movements (lets say 10cm up/down) with your hands:
(a) close to each other
and
(b) spread as wide as posibble
will you change the speed of the kite this way?

TheJoe
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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby TheJoe » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:40 pm

foilholio wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:41 am
And I am sorry you are an idiot.

You even argued against and disproved you own assertion while trying to prove it. Multi level stupid.

It's a simple concept. Am I surprised many people and those at some brands can't grasp it? Not really anymore, we have Trump after all.
Dude let go of the anger you will feel better. I was going to try and explain and get caught up in an argument with you but not going to waste my time. You might need to try somethings to relax a little bit may be even some therapy. Your just a little too worked up about the length of a kite bar.

Matteo V
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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby Matteo V » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:20 pm

Oooooo!.....Gotta get in on this thread. I ignored it because of the title up until I saw it went to 5 pages. Then I had to read it.

Small bars are like a dime a dozen on Ebay/Ikitesurf/CraigsList. Longer bars.....well I am pretty sure I am headed toward making my own bars again as I can't find a bar long enough for my use without paying an arm and a leg. Why are they so expensive/unavailable?

Most kite users need to "tame" the steering speed on smaller kites up through the intermediate stages of learning. They do this with a smaller bar, and so did I - back in the day. After these stages, most kiters develop instinctual feel for a range of kite sizes by static pull (easy) and change in angle/change in pull (very high level of "feel"). So a smaller bar is no longer necessary after getting out of those earlier stages. And I say "most" because I actually had an instructor tell me that you need to always watch the kite to see what it is doing. I am still trying to process that one. Personally, I kite by feel and virtually never look at the kite unless something is terribly wrong. And I do this with the biggest bar (58cm) from 13.5m to 3.5m kite. Again, a long time ago, I used a smaller bar on smaller kites. But now I use a large bar on all kites.

Reguardless of designer input, foilheadio is right. Bigger bars turn the kite faster and have a higher "ultimate differential" between the length change of front lines and back lines. The reason for smaller bars is mostly a crutch to not turn the kite as fast.

There is a situation where advanced through pro riders use smaller bars - unhooked wakestyle tricks. Taming the turning speed allows a greater margin of error on bar turning angle when twisting around or handle passing.


Toby wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:51 pm
Every kite reaches a stall point when you pull on the steering lines too much. This stall point sets the lower limit of the steering line length and forces the designer to either, increase the tip area or choose a smaller bar width.
I grew up on foil kites. Both depower and non-depower. Accessing tip stall via oversheeting on a longer bar is the best way to loop in the back of the window while shedding power in the kite at the same time. This allows a redirection of the kite without paying for it with too much upwind loss. If you kite powered in waves (or snow features), this is a great way to turn around where you want to, even with inflatables. And this mostly unused property of a "small kite on a long bar", is advantageous for most as you go smaller in size with modern inflatable kites.

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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby tomtom » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:48 pm

Im not sure it work with tubes in same manner as foils. Tubes are really oversheet proof. I know that smaller sizes require less travel to stall tip, but smaller size are often stiffer. Anyway. Im making my own carbon bars and was thinking about 46cm for <7 kites. Im not so sure now and will think about what you say.

Matteo V
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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby Matteo V » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:23 pm

tomtom wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:48 pm
Im not sure it work with tubes in same manner as foils. Tubes are really oversheet proof.....
I agree with this only if you say either:

Modern tubes are more resistant to oversheeting

or

Tubes do not oversheet in the exact same manner as a foil will


There is a difference in stall, but you can backstall an inflatable just like a foilkite in the right windspeed.

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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby foilholio » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:26 am

Depends on the tube, some do it better than others but they all do it to an extent.


Smaller bars are slower, but the main advantage to me is the lower steering forces at the center with a smaller bar. This allows easier one handed steering at the center of bar. Which is useful for one handed riding and tricks. Airstyle and wave and surf kiting are few styles that make use of this. There would be a thing I guess as too small a bar where steering input is just not enough, but I have never tried such a bar. Mind you 50cm bars are damn slow on some bigger foils.

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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby pmaggie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:30 pm

My first Core ESP bar (2009/2010 I think) was already adjustable in two different widths… :-))))

Bossstyle
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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby Bossstyle » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 pm

It’s only ozone that doesn’t have an adjustable bar now isn’t it?

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Re: Different Bar Widths - Explained

Postby Faxie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:39 pm

Bossstyle wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 pm
It’s only ozone that doesn’t have an adjustable bar now isn’t it?
Nope. A lot of brands still don't have it, or dropped it.


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