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Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

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coffeeking
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby coffeeking » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:39 pm

Foil wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:52 am
coffeeking wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:27 pm
Never met a foiler.
I did meet a twin tip guy down at New Brighton during the week who checked out my foil as I was setting up and he asked what is was, as he had never seen one before.
Mad or what? :-o
Not sure if it's a UK thing, but they just don't seem to be common at all - I've seen them all over the internet for years but never seen them here. Never seen a foil windsurfer either. Personally I can see why, we have very gusty wind, most beaches I ride at are rocky or weedy and have fairly heavy atlantic chop rolling in. Horses for courses, I guess.

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pikovsg
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby pikovsg » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:12 pm

It may also a distribution thing. A lot more foils available in U.S. than Europe.

Foil
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby Foil » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:24 pm

coffeeking wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:39 pm
Not sure if it's a UK thing, but they just don't seem to be common at all - I've seen them all over the internet for years but never seen them here. Never seen a foil windsurfer either. Personally I can see why, we have very gusty wind, most beaches I ride at are rocky or weedy and have fairly heavy atlantic chop rolling in. Horses for courses, I guess.
I am not sure if the windsurfer foils will sustain any growth,
I myself have a long history with windsurfing(1976 to 2000) and have seen all the different offerings and used, abused and raced most of them, but after getting up close to the foil windsurfers and picking them up to look around them and then sailing alongside the same with me on my foil board I have many doubts about their market appeal,
Just trying to get them to the water is a big job, when at Como a few weeks ago I could not believe how heavy the board with foil attached was and how huge it was, carrying it to the water takes two people, and that's just what was happening, then theres the rig to carry in, it really is a problem to get onto the water,
and how you tackle any shore break is a mystery to me, but when they get up and flying they do move along very fast and close to the wind, however turning is slow and wide, and by the amount of failed attempts I witnessed, very hard to do.
I have as yet never watched a you tube video of anyone launching and landing a foil windsurfer, is it because it looks so cumbersome, I believe it may be.
but that said there was one guy on lake Como with race numbers on his sail that was pushing me for speed and upwind angle, but he was always losing out as he was slowing down so much in the turns and in the lulls he kept stalling the foil, and then as the wind kicked back in it was slow to rise again and get back up to speed.
As yet I have not seen any here in the uk, but I have been told there are a few around. one or two in the west kirby area.

foilfun
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby foilfun » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:37 pm

I love foiling on lakes and in ocean waves, and my girlfriend loves tandem foiling with me. :thumb: I've been kiting since 2001, so I've been through all the big innovations: windsurfing/two-line kite/four-line kite/five-line kite/bow kite. All those innovations had one thing in common—increased wind range, better upwind, and more fun. I started with a 6’6” directional that I thought was crazy small when compared with my windsurfer. Then, I bought a mutant, TT, surfboard, and now a foil. Again, all those changes increased my wind range, upwind ability, and fun. The biggest challenges—by far—during this progression was windsurfing to kiting and surfboard to hydrofoil. Big changes are not easy. In Oklahoma City, 25 of our 30 kiters own foils. Only about 5-7 ride them regularly. Most can't stand the learning curve for the foil or the kite. (Flying in light winds is a new skill too.) I agree with the comments above about the foil being another tool in the toolbox, and how fun they are in waves. I still enjoy my surfboard in 10’+ waves and 30mph+ winds.

I’ve found that no matter where I ride, there are those kiters who find reasons to foil, and those kiters who find excuses to not foil. Such is life.
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fernmanus
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby fernmanus » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:44 pm

Foilfun, you and your lady friend are taking away all of our excuses not to foil. First of all, learning to foil is not easy, but tandem foil!!! :o And tandem foil jumping :thumb:

I have a foil, will practice!

On another note, there is a big contingent of foilers on Maui. Some are out on the water all day long and they are really easy to spot because they wear a full length wetsuit, Hood or helmet and a face mask. They look like aliens 👽 and a lot of them are north of 60 years old.

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ap888
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby ap888 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:54 pm

Very high number in my area out of all the kiters 25-30 that I have ridden with only 2 don’t foil and one of them is getting a foil so that makes 1 out of 30..

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:10 pm

ap888 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:54 pm
Very high number in my area out of all the kiters 25-30 that I have ridden with only 2 don’t foil and one of them is getting a foil so that makes 1 out of 30..

Amazing!

For me it is impossible to say....

Personally I would say there are almost only foilers out :rollgrin:

But this is not true - the thing is, and the reason why it is impossible to estimate, that we got maybe 100 different kitespots in quite close vicinity (50 km or less) in all wind directions.

So those riding waves hardly never meet a TT rider.

And those foiling never meet a TT rider as they seem to seek low water (more flat water) no matter if beginners or freestylers.

But based on what I read on the forums where all "where do we ride today" is happening, it seems that there are maybe half of the riders that are not foiling - just a wild guess...

BUT, if you look at how MUCH different types ride compared, foilers are close to 100% to zero because the Twintippers and Waveriders have to wait for weeks before there is okay wind, whereas foilers can ride every day if they want.

So eventhough I feel there is nothing but foiling because we never see any TTs nomore, I know this is not true...

In waves it is mixed of course, only when a lot more than 20 knots, there are only few foilers out in waves when good sideshore conditions.

8) PF

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Peert
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby Peert » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:23 pm

pikovsg wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:12 pm
It may also a distribution thing. A lot more foils available in U.S. than Europe.
I doubt it that there are a lot more foils available in the US.
I also doubt that if there would be more foil brands available in the US it would make any difference on the number of hydrofoil riders.

There are probably more care brands in Europe than in the US. Does that make the Europeans use cars more often?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:47 pm

Peert wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:23 pm
pikovsg wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:12 pm
It may also a distribution thing. A lot more foils available in U.S. than Europe.
I doubt it that there are a lot more foils available in the US.
I also doubt that if there would be more foil brands available in the US it would make any difference on the number of hydrofoil riders.

There are probably more care brands in Europe than in the US. Does that make the Europeans use cars more often?

I didnt see that one - but honestly, a lot more hydrofoils available in europe, no doubt :thumb:

US has just copied mostly (nothing wrong with that thoug) and got some the last few years, but in europe you got loads of options and brands :rollgrin:

8) PF

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Re: Foilers vs Kiters proportion now

Postby longwhitecloud » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:47 pm

those i know into wave riding that rip... normal surfing, surf foil (paddle)/ kite foil.. in 1 million years would not take a foil out on a good days surf! bad to average maybe.. but good.. no way.

that is true, my board was $27(v old slingshor) from cashies, my kite $200 ( old torch), cheapest foil i have seen $1200 second hand.

foiling is perfect in some situations and i understand the passion, but it is what it is.. v expensive, extra gear, harder to travel with, longer setup, doesnt work in shallow water, weeds, and yes it is very wave focused here so missing out on hacking sick waves to bits and not trying to get pitted ( although these days are rare)is a distressing thought.

i foiled in maui more than 10 years ago. i foiled 2 weeks ago...

i see twintips or surfboards maintaing their dominance, even wake bindings are a joke of high cost.. i seen the wholesale out of china.. biggest markup of any product sold to kiting victims... bit yes small volume..

twintips last a v long time.. companies need stuff to market/ sell / points of difference so jence the push, i dont buy into that world though.

maybe i go buy one instead of stealing my friends, been saying that for a long time.


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