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Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

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Yuvallahav
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Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby Yuvallahav » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:53 am

Hello everyone.
I'm new to Kitesurfing, I've completed (very successfully) the course a couple of weeks ago (about 8 hours in total and I can surf on my own for extended periods of time, surf down wind and up wind, while still, of course, in need to work on my form) and been going to practice almost daily since, so of course I'm looking for gear so I could go an kite when I want to and not rely on my instructor gear. I've purchased a used board and a harness from him which I'm very happy with (both the price, quality and state of the used board and harness) but now that it comes to buying the kite and bar, I'm feeling his need to sell me something with a profit margin overshadows his kite selection.
I'm tall and thin (178 cm, or 5" 10', 65 kilos or 143 pounds), and the winds conditions you find on my local beach (I live 3 minutes from the beach) which people usually kite in is 8-14 knots, and on gusty days it can reach up to 15-20 knots, but those days are not common and normally spell conditions not favorable for kiting. So we're talking about 8-14 knots on average.
Since I can only afford a single kite at the moment (I will be able to get a second one to widen my range in a few months time, I hope), my instructor is pressuring me (not forcibly of course) to buy a 9 meter kite, while every site or forum I've researched, I'm seeing that for my weight and the average wind conditions I have locally, an 11 to 12 meters kite would be more suitable. So are my feelings right in thinking he wants to sell me a kite that won't do for me in my local conditions because he's pushing to sell his friends gear, or is he right in his assessment of the situation? And if so, if he's right and a 9 meter kite will do, how is it all the sites about choosing a kite are wrong?

Thanks, and happy kiting all!

Yuval

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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby fat blokes can fly » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:14 am

Hi Yuval, I personally believe a 9m would be a bit too small for the conditions you state.

His motives may be that he has a 9m on stock. You are not the first person this has happened to.

Yuvallahav
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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby Yuvallahav » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:18 am

Oh he does have one on stock, and it's very used and the bar is terrible, but the price is low which is always a good selling point, and it all works. I would rather pay more and get the right kite instead of settling for something I won't be able to use under a little bit of a low spell in the wind conditions.

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Beardytello
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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby Beardytello » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:27 am

I use a site called Riggeek for a very general kite size guide, it uses pretty much the same formula you'd find anywhere.

For you, around that wind range it says a quiver containing:

12 m2 Min:7.9 kt Recommended: 11.8 kt Max: 15.7 kt
9 m2 Min: 10.5 kt Recommended: 15.7 kt Max: 20.9 kt

My personal experience after 2 years is I prefer being on the side of slightly overpowered rather than underpowered.

I've got into more trouble not being able to stay upwind and ending up in the harbour than I have slightly breaching the "max" on that table and feeling a little hot.

That being said this feeling only came in at about the 2 year mark when I learned to edge better and control the kite more.

Don't take this as gospel and weigh it up against some of the more experienced guys recommendations but I'd go for the 12m if it was me.

You'll be going out in lighter winds, which is much nicer when starting out, and the kite will be slower, I find my 9m a bit of a handful in the weather it's appropriate for, the big ones are more set and forget while you concentrate on other things.

Hope this helps.

Beardy

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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby Janus » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:07 pm

It looks like you 're in the warmer area's of the world.
In LEI I think you have to step up to a 14 or 15m for 8-14 kts and a decent powerd-up feeling.
a 9m LEI will work if you're going to hydrofoil.. no way with a TT.
One kite (12m) which will work: Consider a FS Soul 12m..

Yuvallahav
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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby Yuvallahav » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:12 pm

I seem to be finding a lot of kites on sale (facebook marker and ebay) for the 11 meter, and can't find almost any 12 meters kite. Would an 11 meters be a good compromise for the first year of kiting? And yeah, I live in central Italy, so warm weather, and a temperate winter.

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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby CaptainCore » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:43 pm

Yuvallahav wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:12 pm
I seem to be finding a lot of kites on sale (facebook marker and ebay) for the 11 meter, and can't find almost any 12 meters kite. Would an 11 meters be a good compromise for the first year of kiting? And yeah, I live in central Italy, so warm weather, and a temperate winter.
That's because 12 mtr is the most common size for a 1st kite so my advice would be to persist in your search for a used 12 mtr obviously a used Core would be my favourite (since I sell them)but there are lots of others around that would suit, just try and avoid 5 line kites, foils or aggressive C style kites.

Edit, just noticed you're (like me) 65 kilos so you could get away with an 11, but the flip side makes it that much more difficult to move on when you change kite.

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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby pipelinez » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:51 pm

CaptainCore wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:43 pm
Yuvallahav wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:12 pm
I seem to be finding a lot of kites on sale (facebook marker and ebay) for the 11 meter, and can't find almost any 12 meters kite. Would an 11 meters be a good compromise for the first year of kiting? And yeah, I live in central Italy, so warm weather, and a temperate winter.
That's because 12 mtr is the most common size for a 1st kite so my advice would be to persist in your search for a used 12 mtr obviously a used Core would be my favourite (since I sell them)but there are lots of others around that would suit, just try and avoid 5 line kites, foils or aggressive C style kites.

Edit, just noticed you're (like me) 65 kilos so you could get away with an 11, but the flip side makes it that much more difficult to move on when you change kite.
You can get going in 8kts on a 11 with 65kg?
Damn, i need to lose some weight. :lol:

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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby matth » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:03 pm

9m is way too small IMO. I don't even think of my 9m till its blowing more than 20knt....I weigh 180lbs

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Re: Is my instructor bias regarding buying gear?

Postby tmcfarla » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:09 pm

You aren’t going to be kiting in 8 knots, at least not for a while. That is hydrofoil territory. On a twin tip, at about your weight, I’d guess my low end with a big kite is about 11-12 knots, and that isn’t any fun. You gain a little bit with a directional, and a lot with a hydrofoil, but those will come later. If your area really tops out around 20 knots, then you do not need a 9m. Ignore that wind chart a previous poster had of “10 to 20 knots” for a 9m. That is absolute garbage. 9m kites are just beginning to get started at 20 knots.

From what you describe, 12m or larger sounds reasonable to me, but I don’t trust you to know what typical conditions are (no offense) so look at what other people are using with twin tips. I don’t know where you got the idea that your beach blows what you say it does, but generally speaking, neither wind meters nor other kiters have any clue what it is actually blowing. Wind meters are often far away, or in wind shadows, and other kiters are just repeating what the wind meter said. You are a little lighter than average, so expect to need 1-2 m less kite than your average rider at your beach. If you see a lot of 10’s, then a 9 sounds reasonable. If you see a lot of 14’s, then no, a 9m will not cut it, and you should not buy anything from your instructor.

Finally, get any brand of kite, just get a beginner kite. Someone is going to tell you to get brand X, and another will passionately argue in favor of brand Y, but they are all pretty much the same, especially with beginner kites. Avoid well used kites, they are never the bargain they seem to be.


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