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Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

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Bruce Buffer
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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Bruce Buffer » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:32 am

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:20 pm

I know CappyCore's particular point of view. His livelihood depends on being in the chain for just a portion of that markup.
:thumb:

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby newold86 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:12 am

One more time - those who unhappy about the difference between kite direct cost (materials and the work to put them together) and retail price, why don’t you design own gear, start production and sell everything with 10% markup just on materials/work ?
Or learn at least something about what (costs etc) is involved in designing and bringing the product on the market...

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby matth » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:01 pm

newold86 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:12 am
One more time - those who unhappy about the difference between kite direct cost (materials and the work to put them together) and retail price, why don’t you design own gear, start production and sell everything with 10% markup just on materials/work ?
Or learn at least something about what (costs etc) is involved in designing and bringing the product on the market...

Yup it's not easy...I own a picture frame and sign shop and most customers are great, but you always get those folks that start asking what my material cost are and why are my prices much higher. Some even say, I'm not paying your rent. Usually it's some butt hole with 400$ sunglasses and a shiny BMW they can't afford.

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby rynhardt » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:54 pm

For those who haven't yet read it, check out issue 70 of iksurfmag, where they have an industry-focused article.

Apparently the following numbers are indicative of the market for 2017:
Total number of kites sold : between 140,000 and 150,000
Total kites sold by Cabrinha : between 25,000 and 35,000
Total kites sold by Boards And More: between 25,000 and 35,000

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Matteo V » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:22 pm

No personal shots from me here, but CappyCore is providing some great admissions to take apart.
CaptainCore wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:53 pm
Obviously not a very accurate thread then.
Then enlighten us with some "accuracy". You could even play "The Price Is Right" gameshow with us. If $200 is not an accurate price of a finished kite sitting in Sri Lanka, than what is? And does that not change based on your order quantity? So Slingshot would pay "per kite" less for their initial order, and then Core would have no discount for the same build?


CaptainCore wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:53 pm
Customer service really is the province of the dealer in a structured retail market, fantasy land folk who think the internet is everything and it can deliver customer service of the sort you get hands on in store on the ground in my view are deluded.
So, from other posts here, would the retailer be the last stop for customer service from Core (and a few other brands)? That why I posit you are pretty much in the same boat with direct ordering vs. paying lots of markups as a retail customer - YOU GET THE SAME CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR ABOUT $1200 LESS!

But here is the key. From what james and CappyCore have dropped, each 100%markup taker in the long chain has a specific set of responsibilities. The retailer is responsible for just customer service and warranty claims. The local distributor is only responsible for approximating local consumption (some say for 2months, and that same person would say for the whole year in another case -strange). Then the regional distributor does ????? for what? Then the brand name redesigns last years perfect kite to make it less than perfect so that kiters will buy the following years kite in hopes they made it into the same shape as 3 years ago???? Then they also have some riders that they send around to kite and pimp the new kite that is not as good as last years. But these team riders rarely demo or help out around the local beach.


I am not saying that this situation is not "the best they can do", especially if you want to provide a modest living for people in that chain. Your $1600 (CappyCore please correct for accuracy of production cost (12m kite) to retail difference) that goes to provide a long chain of people is doing good right?

But there is another market model that should take off in the near future. Not because it has been tried before, but because innovation is stagnant and cost increases for those looking to buy new gear is definitely an issue. And just like the Liquid Force "Lil Phatty Kite Pump", making things more expensive by combining an on demand product build (2month order cycle with air freight) with a long supply chain, does not seem as wise as a direct to market model.

So not to straddle both sides of the fence, like Toby has alluded to, barriers to entry in the sport can be good for those of us already here. Less crowded beaches, less chance for accidents from kooks not willing invest in new gear or lessons, and inherent support for lesson providers in that new entrants want to "try kiteboarding" instead of buying in - these can all be seen as good things!

But don't get uneasy when the service you provide - making my purchases more expensive - is not looked upon with admiration and awe.
Last edited by Matteo V on Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby tomato » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:46 pm

Back in 2004 I have sewn my first kite in 8.5m size. I did not expected that it will take so much work. Materials are nothing compared to hours I have spent. Fisrts you have to cut fabrics right, then sew them together. Undo thread and sew again :) It took 2 months of work, probably 150 hours. After that I always buy kites :)

BTW price is not only cost of materials and labor + profit. Supply and demand ratio decide the price in economy.

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby marlboroughman » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:54 pm

The same people who are for deindustialization and destroying the middle class are complaining here that the kites are not selling, go figure. The only people kiting at your local spot will be a local lawyer and a dentist. But don't worry when UK goes full red October I will give free kites to local riders just like I do for Cubans. :rollgrin:

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby sms-kite » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:08 pm

rynhardt wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:54 pm
For those who haven't yet read it, check out issue 70 of iksurfmag, where they have an industry-focused article.

Apparently the following numbers are indicative of the market for 2017:
Total number of kites sold : between 140,000 and 150,000
Total kites sold by Cabrinha : between 25,000 and 35,000
Total kites sold by Boards And More: between 25,000 and 35,000

Who gives this numbers?
Porduction numbers? Sold numbers? at what price?

Because if it comes from the brands, may be it is not really true

Best regards

Norbert

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby CaptainCore » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:04 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:22 pm
each 100%markup taker
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The only thing likely to attract a 100% mark up in your outfit is your boots and I bet everyone in the supply chain fell about as you walked out the door, typical mark up 1.43 maybe 1.5 at most, that's after duty and shipping, then here in europe another 1.2 goes on, so your 200, say landed it's 240, then 1.43 gives 343.2 call it 350 because we're all greedy bastards, that gets say 1.5 for the retailer = 517.5 so 520 because they're greedy bastards as well, then the government wants their cut which gives 624. nowhere near 1800 or whatever BS you were bandying about, so reverse engineer that equation will give you closer to the cost, because that's what's in the distribution chain on hardware items, now clothing, that's another story, it's double up all the way which is why the clothing companys always had all the money and us purveyors of hardware scratch around.

There's an old saying in the business about dealing with the core (lowercase c) elements of the business i.e. mom and pop beach or action hardware stores, it went 'Core is Poor.'

We do it for the lifestyle and the people we meet and deal with, nobody bar nobody, gets rich selling hardware yet nobody bitches about the companys that do make the money like clothing and accessory brands and are they ripping the arse out of the harness market price wise?

So, as to the brand holder a lot depends on how much a part of their financing comes from the manufacturer how much security is lodged and what the payment terms are and they vary dramatically depending on the net worth of the business and the investors, but there are no double ups that I've come across in hardware sector, why they are all veritable philanthropists. :lol:

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Toby » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:25 pm

I also wonder about the sales numbers mentioned.
25-35 k is a big span...if they knew numbers it wouldn’t have that span...so it is just an estimation.

The GKA should have better numbers, since they have the biggest brands organized and they for sure know precisely how many kites they sold.


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