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Ram airs crash in 2018

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grigorib
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Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby grigorib » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:24 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:05 pm
grigorib wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:49 pm
sabraxas wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:21 pm
...
Did you consider the price?

All that features of a foil Kite and the handling and relaunchability of an inflatable at the price of an inflatable...

For me, all the combo is a gamechanger. Freeride Inflatable Kite guys demoing the Soul are being spelled, reconsidering changing their kites for Souls.
So let’s say I buy new 10m Soul for $1300 and it’s about twice the price I pay of a new 10m Rally. And speaking of Rally I get more grunt, turning speed, and loop power (and depower too) out of my 9m Rally than from my 10m Speed4 and I know how to fly both.
To be fair - 6 years of development between Speed4 and Soul is probably as much as changes in Rally 2012-2018 but 10m Rally 2012 I had is par to 9m Rally 2017 I ride

But still I and people like me won’t be able to enjoy a foil kite in conditions I described above. And wait until they need a repair to be done and bridles equalized - that would be a major WTF moment for them.

Time will show who is right here. I don’t forget, so let’s check it again in fall 2019 :)
Completely different kites there and I know you’re talking about the S4 DLXs not the lotus. There was a huge leap in performance after the Speed 4 lotus. That Soul 10m will easily cover 2 of your inflatable kites.
nope. I'm talking Speed4 in Standard fabric, not DLX and I'm talking good things which came on that kite and then put back to a drawer until Sonic and Speed5. I'm not sure why Lotus would have any performance leap - it was to a millimeter same kite as S3 and my S3DLX was awesome wing - I had it. More airtight/ligter fabric is hardly a design revolution,

I'm a bit behind on foils - last ones I rode were R1 and Sonic and they were cool, great lightwindability, excellent upwind but they're not made for looping and figure eight-ing downwind. So speaking of how many LEI sizes a foil kite covers is a neverending story and I call it a BS because I've ridden both foils and LEIs and I love both and there are lots of lies about foils which don't serve foils well and this one is one I've heard a lot.
I can reduce my 5/7/9/11 quiver of LEIs eliminating the 11m as large sizes are kind of boring, 9m is my main wing covering 9-26 knot winds from foiling to boosting and I sill need 7 and 5 for riding in 30 and 45 knots respectively. I know I can foil with 5m in 16 knots - I did, but that's kind of not so much fun.

I admire Flysurfer and Ozone and I hope they make more cool wing though but next November - and I'm saying that here and now - there'll be just another iteration, just next versions of foil/LEI kites but same misconceptions will remain and market share of foils will go down for water freeride.

Soul is just a replacement of Speed5, that's it. There's no game changer on the market besides foiling and once efoils become affordable we'll lose bunch of kiters.

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sabraxas
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby sabraxas » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:44 pm

Make yourself a favour, Grigorib.

First ride the Soul and then come back later. And then we will talk properly.

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sabraxas
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby sabraxas » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:54 pm

And about Speed 3 and Speed 4 Lotus, well, Lotus cloth was a huge improvement in weight and relaunchability.

A friend of mine has 2 SP3 21 m and 1 SP 3 19m, and now has one sp 4 Lotus 18 m that it was mine. Parking Zenit un 5 kn, tighter turns, more windrange.

The first SP 4, previous to Lotus, was more like in the líne of Psycho.

But, then again. Try the Soul, relaunch it, kiteloop it, ride ir, jump it, and then we talk
Last edited by sabraxas on Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Adventure Logs
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby Adventure Logs » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:16 pm

grigorib wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:24 pm
Adventure Logs wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:05 pm
grigorib wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:49 pm


So let’s say I buy new 10m Soul for $1300 and it’s about twice the price I pay of a new 10m Rally. And speaking of Rally I get more grunt, turning speed, and loop power (and depower too) out of my 9m Rally than from my 10m Speed4 and I know how to fly both.
To be fair - 6 years of development between Speed4 and Soul is probably as much as changes in Rally 2012-2018 but 10m Rally 2012 I had is par to 9m Rally 2017 I ride

But still I and people like me won’t be able to enjoy a foil kite in conditions I described above. And wait until they need a repair to be done and bridles equalized - that would be a major WTF moment for them.

Time will show who is right here. I don’t forget, so let’s check it again in fall 2019 :)
Completely different kites there and I know you’re talking about the S4 DLXs not the lotus. There was a huge leap in performance after the Speed 4 lotus. That Soul 10m will easily cover 2 of your inflatable kites.
nope. I'm talking Speed4 in Standard fabric, not DLX and I'm talking good things which came on that kite and then put back to a drawer until Sonic and Speed5. I'm not sure why Lotus would have any performance leap - it was to a millimeter same kite as S3 and my S3DLX was awesome wing - I had it. More airtight/ligter fabric is hardly a design revolution,

I'm a bit behind on foils - last ones I rode were R1 and Sonic and they were cool, great lightwindability, excellent upwind but they're not made for looping and figure eight-ing downwind. So speaking of how many LEI sizes a foil kite covers is a neverending story and I call it a BS because I've ridden both foils and LEIs and I love both and there are lots of lies about foils which don't serve foils well and this one is one I've heard a lot.
I can reduce my 5/7/9/11 quiver of LEIs eliminating the 11m as large sizes are kind of boring, 9m is my main wing covering 9-26 knot winds from foiling to boosting and I sill need 7 and 5 for riding in 30 and 45 knots respectively. I know I can foil with 5m in 16 knots - I did, but that's kind of not so much fun.

I admire Flysurfer and Ozone and I hope they make more cool wing though but next November - and I'm saying that here and now - there'll be just another iteration, just next versions of foil/LEI kites but same misconceptions will remain and market share of foils will go down for water freeride.

Soul is just a replacement of Speed5, that's it. There's no game changer on the market besides foiling and once efoils become affordable we'll lose bunch of kiters.
Here's a quick timeline to bring you up to speed. The Speed 4 came in the DLX/Standard in only 8/10m then the normal Speed 4 Lotus in all sizes which was basically Speed 3's in new fabric. The two different Speed 4 models were greatly different, with the 8/10 being more like the Pyschos but due to build, were easily damaged. The jump in performance came after in the Sonic and Speed 5. The Sonic FR was about performance while sacrificing some stability and the Sonic 2 was near the same performance but gained stability. The Speed 5 furthered that by loosing a little more performance but gained great stability. The Soul ISNT a replacement for the Speed 5, it’s an entirely different line of kites and for good reason. Best way to describe it is more stable than the Speed 5, but with near performance of a Sonic FR and turning/agility of the Pyscho 4. Go out on YouTube and check out the videos. You can power kiteloop these Souls which really is unheard of with fools. I ride my 15m Soul on a 134 TT from around 8kts to 25kts COMFORTABLY. Till you ride one, you just don’t know and again you can’t base your opinion on riding a foil that’s nearly 5 years outdated.

grigorib
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Posts: 1100
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
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Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Coupe 6'
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby grigorib » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:29 pm

Adventure Logs wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:16 pm
grigorib wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:24 pm
Adventure Logs wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:05 pm


Completely different kites there and I know you’re talking about the S4 DLXs not the lotus. There was a huge leap in performance after the Speed 4 lotus. That Soul 10m will easily cover 2 of your inflatable kites.
nope. I'm talking Speed4 in Standard fabric, not DLX and I'm talking good things which came on that kite and then put back to a drawer until Sonic and Speed5. I'm not sure why Lotus would have any performance leap - it was to a millimeter same kite as S3 and my S3DLX was awesome wing - I had it. More airtight/ligter fabric is hardly a design revolution,

I'm a bit behind on foils - last ones I rode were R1 and Sonic and they were cool, great lightwindability, excellent upwind but they're not made for looping and figure eight-ing downwind. So speaking of how many LEI sizes a foil kite covers is a neverending story and I call it a BS because I've ridden both foils and LEIs and I love both and there are lots of lies about foils which don't serve foils well and this one is one I've heard a lot.
I can reduce my 5/7/9/11 quiver of LEIs eliminating the 11m as large sizes are kind of boring, 9m is my main wing covering 9-26 knot winds from foiling to boosting and I sill need 7 and 5 for riding in 30 and 45 knots respectively. I know I can foil with 5m in 16 knots - I did, but that's kind of not so much fun.

I admire Flysurfer and Ozone and I hope they make more cool wing though but next November - and I'm saying that here and now - there'll be just another iteration, just next versions of foil/LEI kites but same misconceptions will remain and market share of foils will go down for water freeride.

Soul is just a replacement of Speed5, that's it. There's no game changer on the market besides foiling and once efoils become affordable we'll lose bunch of kiters.
Dude you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Speed 4 came in the DLX/Standard in only 8/10m then the normal Speed 4 Lotus in all sizes. The jump in performance came after in the Sonic and Speed 5. The Soul ISNT a replacement for the S5, it’s an entirely different line of kites and for good reason. Go out on YouTube and check out the videos. You can power kiteloop these Souls which really is unheard of with fools. I ride my 15m Soul on a 134 TT from around 10kts to 25kts COMFORTABLY. Till you ride one, you just don’t know and again you can’t base your opinion on riding a foil that’s nearly 5 years outdated.
I own S4 10m in standard fabric, I was still a “I need a foil kite” back then and I rode the Sonic as my last touchnon foil kites. I know my stuff. I sold a 15m this spring and debating selling the 11m too. Large kites are slow and silly. In 25 knots I’d fly 45 feet high on my 9m or foil on my 5m. There’s no way I’m owning a parachute for a kite.
Anyways, I’d demo a Soul and ride one for free off a wide sandy beach. For my money I would rather spend on better foil wings than on kites.

apollo4000
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby apollo4000 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:59 pm

Phew. Think I just saved a lot of money by reading this thread. Enough to stop me in my tracks and make me question whether I need a foil kite. All that bridle fussing. I saw a video on adjusting the bridle to counter stretching, yuck. I don’t go enough and was just shopping as a proxy for kitesurfing. Lucky 2k escape 😀

socommk23
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby socommk23 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:50 am

So so many noobs falling for pmu biyearly baiting posts. Another forum grenade, he pulled the pin, threw it and is watching the mess it has created......AGAIN! I have to say, it does get amusing.

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Pump me up
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby Pump me up » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:30 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:39 am
the cost (of ram airs is) almost twice the price in many cases for same sized kite…
Ram air kites promote elitism, classism, snobbery, the sports fragmentation/ dilution, unaffordability, reduced youth involvement,reduced number of under 40s, planned obsolescence ( bridle stretch / tuning), an unbalanced focus on equipment.. not the riders’ performance. Unwanted profit, only short term focused corporate investment in kiting, unwanted olympic involvement, unwanted squabbling over rights to whether kiteboarding can retain its self determination as sailing attempts to rewrite history and attempt to steal a sport from under our nose$. and combined with $4000 foil boards...absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary.

Take your flying sleeping bags and...
longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:58 am
hmm lets choose the most niche of all niches that bears no relation to action sports whatsoever
Great points by Longwhitecloud. Indeed, the excessive cost, rapid obsolescence, inferior performance, and niche market share of RAM AIRS involves all of the downsides that Longwhitecloud mentions: elitism, snobbery, kitesurfing’s fragmentation, exclusion of youth/poor, and corporatisation.

Ignore the lies. Flying sleeping bags are aerodynamically inferior and BAD for the sport overall.

Pumpy :pump:

jatem
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby jatem » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:21 am

Isn't it good we have diversity. Imagine a situation where companies just put different colours on the same old pumpy kites each year. We might as well have cutting edge tech as well.

Normal people go walking along the beach when the wind is light, and hydrofoils with foil kites will be flying above the water for people to be amazed at. That just might get them interested in joining our kiting community. What a great sport that keeps on progressing.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:01 am

Same for "tourists stand-up paddles" or even surfers : now we can ride together and share a "hello ! ".

Nothing snobish, why insulting us ?


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