Afternoon All,
We have recently decided to involve local Law Enforcement in our sport here in St. Pete. I for one think and know this is a very bad idea. I have been involved in coastal and international Maritime Law Enforcement and SAR for over 11 years and it is my full time career. I have dealt extensively with other Federal, State, Local and Municipal Law enforcement agencies. I have networked and conducted operations at a command and at the level where the rubber meets the road with many of these agencies. In the last three years here on the West Coast of Florida.
There are many aspects at which involving and networking with Law Enforcement you have to understand. One aspect is credibility and this will be one of the biggest aspects and probably the most important. This helps with the credibility of the persons or organizations meeting and inviting Law Enforcement. Without credibility if we do show up it's probably for the free doughnuts and coffee and you can bore us with your BS while we eat and drink and all is forgotten once we walk out the door. (Esp on this moot issue) A newly found organization like TBKSA (Tampa Bay Kite Surf Association) is not a credible org which LE will want to listen to. Simply standing up a organization because your pissed off about people not wearing leashes is not a good reason. No one has a excuse for not wearing a leash with the invention of the new leash systems. (EX Slingshots new leash). I can't believe if would even want to point out to enforcement the danger to the public when people don't wear them.
To go into what these people will effectively due for the area riders in St Pete, Tampa if they continue to push this topic:
All that will show up to this meeting is street cops, rural patrol, and if your unlucky maybe a Sgt. This will effectively set you up for the snowball effect that will give you a name. Perhaps not the name you are looking for but as the person/persons that got kitesurfers banned from the beaches in the St. pete Clwtr area. The reason I say this is if you look a little further then the hairs on the end of your nose. You will begin to understand that cops in the current day could care about leashes and helping you enforce them with our inherently dangerous sport. Not to mention do they have the time to even try to understand this sport.
Once you manage to point out the inherent risks in this sport to ourselves. Not to mention the risk to beach goers. Police will now have more that ever a reson to ban it from all public access areas. Think about it: 60 percent of Floridas revenue is associated with it's beaches if not more. Why worry about enforcment or risk to the majority, which or paying money into Floridas economy; when you can remove the problem by passing ordnace to remove the minority. (IE Kitesurfers and possibly windsurfers will feel the effect). Boy now not only or Kiters pissed all those windsurfers or going to want a piece of you to.
Self policing not the police is the answer to your problem and stick to what you know. On another note your job alone does not instill credibility amongst others. Saying Im in public service does not give credibility. Garbage truck drivers, and parking meter attendants or public service. Cops could care for either other that there safety and well being. They do not hold meetings to pass ordance for cops to attend to tell them to how and where there is a problem.
On one more note showing Cops, Water Patrol, FWC, USCG, how to save your gear is not a good idea. We do not give a damn about your 2000 dollar kite and board. If you got your self in trouble you were most likely doing something you shouldn't have been and we are there to save your life first and fore most. Your gear will be salvaged if it's feasible and if not cut loose. (Hint: loose lines in water is a risk you figure it out).
Im done with this. Im leaving the St PEte area very soon I hate to see a few screw this good thing up for the majority of kitesurfers in the area. My opinion is this is the most laughable and hysterical thing Ive heard a group of people do. You maybe should listen to some of the other kiters sailors and lovers of water toys in this matter. Im sure the last thing they want is more involvment of government in there lives, much less go asking for it. Self police your beaches.
ST
Sorry about the spelling and grammer. Im not a English major.
TBKSA Involving Locals Law in our sport.
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window guy
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Good post Kiterite,
A few maxims come to mind:
Let sleeping dogs ly
Do not iritate lions
It's better to be silent and thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
And last but not least,
Never-ever call the cops!
fokiten
PS. it's you want-a be in charge types that need a good beating, you stupid ass kissing fuc-wads.
why not just kite, is that so hard to do? and for St Petes sakes leave the MAN out of it.
PPS. window guy I bet your behind this, why don't you shut the f*** up
and take that hockey puck out of your ass and put in your pie hole.
A few maxims come to mind:
Let sleeping dogs ly
Do not iritate lions
It's better to be silent and thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
And last but not least,
Never-ever call the cops!
fokiten
PS. it's you want-a be in charge types that need a good beating, you stupid ass kissing fuc-wads.
why not just kite, is that so hard to do? and for St Petes sakes leave the MAN out of it.
PPS. window guy I bet your behind this, why don't you shut the f*** up
and take that hockey puck out of your ass and put in your pie hole.
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RickI
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Hello Kiterite,
You have a lot of experience with public sector issues, enforcement AND you kiteboard, better still. We have learned what inactivity can often produce, bans and restrictions. This isn't 2001 anymore, there are a LOT more riders in most areas AND A LOT MORE BANS. Voluntary compliance with responsible riding practice IS the best way to go, no question about that. That is IF riders care enough to be responsible and know how to go about riding that way. If not, things may well get ugly as the authorities possibly try to sort things out for us without much knowledge or concern for our sport.
So, why not get in touch with Eagle and get INVOLVED even if you are heading out of town in the not too distant future. You care enough about access to make your posting, take it a step further to provide your input directly to the guys TRYING to make a plan to keep the good times flying. I agree focusing on the hazards with the public sector usually not an advisable course of action. What I have generally tried to do with the authorties is to focus on responsible riding practices, that is to say cure as opposed to possible consequences. The consequences of failure are always there as incidents, accidents and restrictions, no need to focus on these with outsiders. Riders are a different matter of course, we need to wake up to the reality that for lack of care, the authorities may well shut us down. Authorities are considering what to do with our sport in some launches in Tampa Bay now as I suspect you know.
Doing nothing, as we have done for quite a long time in many cases, is no
longer is a viable option in areas with actual or perceived problems. If you ride in the middle of nowhere, access may never be a problem. Relying upon self-policing without some group to help motivate self-policing may not be very effective in some cases. Ideas are welcome and effective involvement much more so.
This sport is too good to lose to indifference, so get involved otherwise get ready to drive or FLY further to a launch one of these days.
You have a lot of experience with public sector issues, enforcement AND you kiteboard, better still. We have learned what inactivity can often produce, bans and restrictions. This isn't 2001 anymore, there are a LOT more riders in most areas AND A LOT MORE BANS. Voluntary compliance with responsible riding practice IS the best way to go, no question about that. That is IF riders care enough to be responsible and know how to go about riding that way. If not, things may well get ugly as the authorities possibly try to sort things out for us without much knowledge or concern for our sport.
So, why not get in touch with Eagle and get INVOLVED even if you are heading out of town in the not too distant future. You care enough about access to make your posting, take it a step further to provide your input directly to the guys TRYING to make a plan to keep the good times flying. I agree focusing on the hazards with the public sector usually not an advisable course of action. What I have generally tried to do with the authorties is to focus on responsible riding practices, that is to say cure as opposed to possible consequences. The consequences of failure are always there as incidents, accidents and restrictions, no need to focus on these with outsiders. Riders are a different matter of course, we need to wake up to the reality that for lack of care, the authorities may well shut us down. Authorities are considering what to do with our sport in some launches in Tampa Bay now as I suspect you know.
Doing nothing, as we have done for quite a long time in many cases, is no
longer is a viable option in areas with actual or perceived problems. If you ride in the middle of nowhere, access may never be a problem. Relying upon self-policing without some group to help motivate self-policing may not be very effective in some cases. Ideas are welcome and effective involvement much more so.
This sport is too good to lose to indifference, so get involved otherwise get ready to drive or FLY further to a launch one of these days.
Last edited by RickI on Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reply to Rick
Rick,
By no means do I mean do nothing. I spoke with Brian and he seems at this point maybe to be going about this in the right direction. Involving the local LE at this point on an enforcement option is not a good idea. Making enforcement aware of the hazards that exist to ourselves and the public when unsafe practices are used is not something we should pursue at this point. The sport has some bigger organizations that might have devloped some political pull during the longevity of there being. These larger orgs should even be cautious when looking towards education of enforcement officials. If the wrong person conveys in the right voice the wrong message officials will get the wrong message. (hope that made since)They will grasp the idea of unsafe in more that the way we see it. Why police a issue and add to a departments workload when you can restrict it from even happening by not allowing the animal to even exist around the public. You can't tell me anyone who has been alive for more than 18 yrs hasn't seen this occur.
A Hazard Condition Report was filed a few weeks ago when a kiter lost her kite and was wearing a leash and it flew into the interstate at the Sky Way Bridge. All safety gear was donned. (A inherently dangerous location due to the interstate to begin with) I spoke with troopers and they have to file this due repeated problems and reports they can take action if need be. God help us a kite lands on the front of a windshield of car on the interstate changes lanes and hits head on to oncoming traffic=THE END. (There will be little room for debate once this occurs)
I don't see a need for damage control when there is no damage. A need to fix something that is not broke. Neverthless there is a problem and ultimatly it will lead to sanctions on the sport,if it is not fixed, this however; due to it's nature (kitesurfing)((Which I also have a love for)) needs to be handed to authorities at the right time and not brought as a problem. Approaching authorities with a bad scenario that might occur if safety is not used will lead to sanctions on our sport and should be approached with extreme caution. I have a great respect for many of the guys in the area and there are only a couple that should make an attempt of this sort. Non these agree at this point approaching authorities at this time is a good idea. I am not a good candidiate for this and most likely never will be due to conflict of interest but.......I can give guidance to the right individuals when the time comes and offer my advice when the time comes. I am no means to only voice to be heard on this issue and I only hope new foundations listen to all sides before taking action and due the right thing, not what they are already set on.
Rick thanks for all your work in the sport. I will attempt to attend the meeting on the 26 job permitting.
ST
By no means do I mean do nothing. I spoke with Brian and he seems at this point maybe to be going about this in the right direction. Involving the local LE at this point on an enforcement option is not a good idea. Making enforcement aware of the hazards that exist to ourselves and the public when unsafe practices are used is not something we should pursue at this point. The sport has some bigger organizations that might have devloped some political pull during the longevity of there being. These larger orgs should even be cautious when looking towards education of enforcement officials. If the wrong person conveys in the right voice the wrong message officials will get the wrong message. (hope that made since)They will grasp the idea of unsafe in more that the way we see it. Why police a issue and add to a departments workload when you can restrict it from even happening by not allowing the animal to even exist around the public. You can't tell me anyone who has been alive for more than 18 yrs hasn't seen this occur.
A Hazard Condition Report was filed a few weeks ago when a kiter lost her kite and was wearing a leash and it flew into the interstate at the Sky Way Bridge. All safety gear was donned. (A inherently dangerous location due to the interstate to begin with) I spoke with troopers and they have to file this due repeated problems and reports they can take action if need be. God help us a kite lands on the front of a windshield of car on the interstate changes lanes and hits head on to oncoming traffic=THE END. (There will be little room for debate once this occurs)
I don't see a need for damage control when there is no damage. A need to fix something that is not broke. Neverthless there is a problem and ultimatly it will lead to sanctions on the sport,if it is not fixed, this however; due to it's nature (kitesurfing)((Which I also have a love for)) needs to be handed to authorities at the right time and not brought as a problem. Approaching authorities with a bad scenario that might occur if safety is not used will lead to sanctions on our sport and should be approached with extreme caution. I have a great respect for many of the guys in the area and there are only a couple that should make an attempt of this sort. Non these agree at this point approaching authorities at this time is a good idea. I am not a good candidiate for this and most likely never will be due to conflict of interest but.......I can give guidance to the right individuals when the time comes and offer my advice when the time comes. I am no means to only voice to be heard on this issue and I only hope new foundations listen to all sides before taking action and due the right thing, not what they are already set on.
Rick thanks for all your work in the sport. I will attempt to attend the meeting on the 26 job permitting.
ST
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window guy
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hey foe kiten...
some of us have a business to run and a family to raise and barley have time to take a shit let alone start an association to try to deal with clairvoyant queer wanna-be poet society pillow-biter types like you.
the only thing i have to do with TBKSA is i am for it.
i'm pretty sure you don't wan't to meet up with me for fear that i'll put you in your place but just in case you know where to find me...
i pitty the fool that rides leashless around me in the future the bullshiting is over.
and to those kiters that are trying to kick the habit(riding leashless)....don't expect us to all to just forget all the newbies that you polluted with you pretzel logic that goes something like this....
"well now that we have a good saftey system i'll try it"
the truth is there has never been an excuse to be that selfish towards other kiters.
if all kiters were as defective as you we would'nt even have a chance...
foreskin...i'm begging you...please come to my launch site without your leash and try to ride.
some of us have a business to run and a family to raise and barley have time to take a shit let alone start an association to try to deal with clairvoyant queer wanna-be poet society pillow-biter types like you.
the only thing i have to do with TBKSA is i am for it.
i'm pretty sure you don't wan't to meet up with me for fear that i'll put you in your place but just in case you know where to find me...
i pitty the fool that rides leashless around me in the future the bullshiting is over.
and to those kiters that are trying to kick the habit(riding leashless)....don't expect us to all to just forget all the newbies that you polluted with you pretzel logic that goes something like this....
"well now that we have a good saftey system i'll try it"
the truth is there has never been an excuse to be that selfish towards other kiters.
if all kiters were as defective as you we would'nt even have a chance...
foreskin...i'm begging you...please come to my launch site without your leash and try to ride.
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eagle
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ST,
Your insight into this issue is exactly what type of rhetoric and debate that needs to be generated among the local riders.
I agree that at this point approaching law enforcement would only be counterproductive, as these folks have more important issues to deal with considering current events.
We are the minority and you were right on spot when you said the easiest way to solve a problem is to eliminate the minority.
Self policing is the first step we as a group need to take in the Tampa Bay area.
Access issues and kitesurfing restrictions from across the country are being studied and we are looking at what has worked/has not worked in the past, as well as what is going on in South Florida.
Any and all ideas are welcome and as a group we will decide what the most appropriate course of action to take will be.
I can assure you that no LE are going to be at the meeting or involved, a rumor which I hope was put to rest last night.
I am certain that following our conversation that you understand both my level of concern and commitment to preserving access in the Bay area through safe practice and education.
By no means do I wish to see government(especially law enforcement) intruding into our sport, however if we do nothing and allow the situation to worsen, this will become a reality.
This illustrated the importance of becomming organized, so that if and when there is government involvment, our voice will be impossible to ignore.
Your time and expertise is appreciated and I hope that you will attend the meeting and share your insight despite the fact you are leaving town for OCS.
Again, thanks for your time and I look forward to speaking with you in the future.
BE
Your insight into this issue is exactly what type of rhetoric and debate that needs to be generated among the local riders.
I agree that at this point approaching law enforcement would only be counterproductive, as these folks have more important issues to deal with considering current events.
We are the minority and you were right on spot when you said the easiest way to solve a problem is to eliminate the minority.
Self policing is the first step we as a group need to take in the Tampa Bay area.
Access issues and kitesurfing restrictions from across the country are being studied and we are looking at what has worked/has not worked in the past, as well as what is going on in South Florida.
Any and all ideas are welcome and as a group we will decide what the most appropriate course of action to take will be.
I can assure you that no LE are going to be at the meeting or involved, a rumor which I hope was put to rest last night.
I am certain that following our conversation that you understand both my level of concern and commitment to preserving access in the Bay area through safe practice and education.
By no means do I wish to see government(especially law enforcement) intruding into our sport, however if we do nothing and allow the situation to worsen, this will become a reality.
This illustrated the importance of becomming organized, so that if and when there is government involvment, our voice will be impossible to ignore.
Your time and expertise is appreciated and I hope that you will attend the meeting and share your insight despite the fact you are leaving town for OCS.
Again, thanks for your time and I look forward to speaking with you in the future.
BE