Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

For all foil kite riders
User avatar
abel
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1585
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2003 11:32 pm
Kiting since: 2003
Favorite Beaches: Naxos, Kos, Rodos (prasonisi), Red sea, Cumbuco, Kalpitia (Sri Lanka)
Style: freeride, very light winds
Gear: Peak4, Airush Ultra, hydrofoil Moses 633
Location: Small village
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 13 times

What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby abel » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:01 am

I'm considering buying a foil kite for Hfoiling in the 6-10 wind range, but I'm reluctant because worried about dipping it the drink.
I'm thinking of a criterion to go for a session or not given the lowest lulls during the last 10-15 minutes.
Lets say that the lowest lull during the last 10 minutes was 4 knots for about one minute.

Will the last generation foils kites stay in the air or fall?

early bird2
Medium Poster
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:17 am
Local Beach: Lake Champlain
Favorite Beaches: Magdalen Island , Baja
Style: freeride
Gear: Ozone , North
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby early bird2 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:55 am

I would say the Ultra light foil kite version will stay in the air no problem. You might have to keep the kite in movement if regular canopy material . Very light air equal Ultra Light for me . Also , with the Ultra light your chances to relaunch the kite in such light air are way better .

queneseb
Medium Poster
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:24 pm
Gear: Peterlynn NOVA
Peterlynn AEROv2
Peterlynn HOOK
Brand Affiliation: Peterlynn
Chubanga
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby queneseb » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:24 pm

for sure.. but you also need a big size kite and keep it in movement

Mossy 757
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:10 pm
Local Beach: First Landing State Park, Virginia Beach Oceanfront
Style: Kitefoil
Gear: Delta Hydrofoil and board. Cabrinha Velocity 9m, Flysurfer Sonic2 11m, Ozone R1V2 15m
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby Mossy 757 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:52 pm

abel wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:01 am
Lets say that the lowest lull during the last 10 minutes was 4 knots for about one minute. Will the last generation foils kites stay in the air or fall?
If you're up and riding on your high end carbon fiber hydrofoil that's ultra efficient and you're on a point of sail that keeps the kite well powered, yes, 4 knots is doable.

If you're in the water 15m away from your board getting pulled with the current in the same direction as the wind while light onshore waves push you under the kite...you're dead meat.

For the best riders, the answer to this question has been "yes" since the original Chrono. The improvements since then have not really changed whether the kites work in light wind but have widened the margin of error during "momentary lapses of expertise." :wink:

I shared your fears before buying my first foil, my solution was to buy a $900 15m Elf Joker5 that had been thoroughly trashed. I tuned it up, replaced some bridle parts, and got a full year of use out of it where I was entirely unconcerned with whether it blew up or not. After getting the hang of things I started buying newer and better foils and never looked back.

Regis-de-giens
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2006
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm
Weight: 62 kg
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind, waves
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 18&15&12S, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, peak 5M , Rally 6, Elf 11 &7, 19m2 single skin proto.
foil Ketos, RCS Supreme, TBK Mana, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 266 times
Been thanked: 351 times

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:35 pm

On that minimum wind game, the Concept'air Pulsion is for sure the best of all, thanks to extreme light cloth and moderate Aspect Ratios to work it efficiently. For example far better than my Elf Jocker 5 , but also Chrono v1, significantly better than the Sonic2 according to an expert riders that owns both , even my previous FS speed4 Lotus needs more wind, and bleive it or not even better than single skin FS peak according to a foil kite teacher that made back-to-back tests.

Advising knots numbers is difficult in such wind ranges, as it depends on how and where you measure the wind: e.g. I can raise my Pulsion 15m ultralight in the air on the beach without walking backward when my two wind meters shows 0 (but it is not obviously).

windrider1
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:51 am
Gear: FLYSURFER, HQ KITES, OZONE KITES
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: NY
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby windrider1 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:18 pm

All modern day race foils will stay up no problems in 6knts. however 4 knts u will need to pay some attention and input to the kite. in those winds its better to ger an ultralight type fabric kite. but in my experience kiting in lulls of less than 6knts is just asking for problems and a swim in . most times the wind will die at any moment . I can go from 6knts and up with a light type 18m racekite and twintip . so i stick to tht as my minimum. but a hydrofoil probally can do it with a 14 or 15 m kite .

joriws
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:03 am
Gear: Flysurfer, HQ, Moses, Nobile, North, Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby joriws » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:30 pm

Here is an example how Flysurfer closed cell foils (Sonic v1 15m and Speed4 8m dlx) stays airborne in puff (2-4kn sub freezing air), kites could fly without skating after initial skate-fill but we played with 360 wind windows etc that's why you see a lot of skating in below video. As a comparision Ozone Frenzy 5m open cell (red kite at background) could not fly which proves the light wind.

https://youtu.be/q4a7X0PiagQ

coffeeking
Medium Poster
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:59 pm
Gear: Waroo 9, Yarga 13.5, F-one Mach1 18.1, FS Speed5 12m
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby coffeeking » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:44 am

It's always the lulls that get you, you're right. I could only just get my 12.speed 5 to stay up in 6ish knots by swimming upwind.

evan
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:48 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: Brouwersdam
Style: Hydrofoil - Big Air
Gear: Infexion bars
Brand Affiliation: Infexion
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 335 times
Contact:

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby evan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:02 pm

Speed 5 is one of the heaviest foikkites out there, my Peter Lynn Aero 20m weighs with 2.9kg only 160gram more compared to the 12m speed at 2.74kg.

Flew it only on 13m lines max for racing, but even that gets as low as 6kn before the power spike is not enough to get going anymore. Imagine what 30m lines would do..... Sadly stable 4-6kn conditions are extremely rare, it is mostly completely windless, too instable or rideable on short lines here in the Netherlands so no change to test the low-end of the 20m on long lines yet.

User avatar
alexrider
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:52 am
Gear: foils and foils
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: What is the absolute lower end a foil keeps in the air?

Postby alexrider » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:47 am

evan wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:02 pm
..... Sadly stable 4-6kn conditions are extremely rare....
That's a good remark. And in sub-6 knots wind, the current becomes an important factor in the perceived wind. That's why for freeride hydrofoiling I wouldn't take a 18+ size kite for the minumum winds the brand claims it can fly.
Flysurfer's specs give min wind speed for hydrofoiling: 5 knots for the 15 RACE, 4 for the 18 and 3 (!) for the 21. Kites with the same weight vs projected area ratio should achieve the same.
Last edited by alexrider on Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 128 guests